• Welcome to Final Fantasy Hacktics. Please login or sign up.
 
March 28, 2024, 06:29:16 pm

News:

Don't be hasty to start your own mod; all our FFT modding projects are greatly understaffed! Find out how you can help in the Recruitment section or our Discord!


Community Mod

Started by ShadowSkyle, May 19, 2012, 10:30:52 pm

Which plot should the main story revolve around?

Initial Contact With Lucavi
Conscript
Neophyte's Revised Plot

Quman

I was under the impression that Viera and Bangaa went extinct as a result of the cataclysm. The cataclysm is credited with the extinction of the "winged ones" (possibly referring to moogles,) and it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that the other races that we hear nothing about throughout FFT no longer exist. It may be possible to find some way to work them in if we really want to, but I'm reluctant to do so.

As for the other Lucavi, there's a reason I singled out Mateus and Shemhazai in my post. Chaos came from the Taurus stone, which was buried in Goug (probably since the cataclysm, which was also credited with old Goug's destruction.) Zeromus' Cancer Stone was guarded by Worker 7 in Nelveska Temple. Exodus' Libra stone is an heirloom of the Orlandeu family. Famfrit's Aquarius stone was recovered from the Goland coal mine. The two that I singled out were already in the possession of the church when FFT started, so they and Elidibus would be the easiest to work into the plot.

ShadowSkyle

July 12, 2012, 09:40:13 pm #121 Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 09:53:14 pm by ShadowSkyle
Sorry for the delay. All submissions will be reviewed, and one will be chosen as the central plot of the mod!

Actually, we'll let the community decide! The plot submissions are listed on the first post. Review them, and choose your favorite!

Eternal

Maybe you should make the plot submissions into a poll. :P
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

ShadowSkyle

Already on it, Eternal. :) Posted before I set it up.

Also, here are the plot submissions:

Initial Contact With Lucavi
Personally, I really like the idea of making Simon the protagonist of this game, or at least a major player. The main plot could surround the church's initial contact with the Lucavi. Either Vormav's predecessor becomes possessed and convinces his buddies that it would be a good idea to find more holy stones, or he's just interested because the Zodiac Stones are valuable religious/historical artifacts. Either way, Simon (or whoever the protagonist is) aids in the search for the latter reason, and ends up inadvertently causing some incredibly terrible things to happen. The Lucavi that awaken during this game may end up being defeated, but the Leo Stone and many others are already in the possession of the church, and it's only a matter of time before Hashmal gets things going again.

The major villains of this story would probably be Shemhazai and Mateus if it's possible to get sprites for them. Otherwise, the Lucavi that appeared in FFT could be active. Elidibus should probably be in the story somewhere. Cid should also be in the story, since he seemed to know a bit about what the church was up to in FFT, and since the Libra Stone was an Orlandeau family heirloom (though I don't think the church knew that he had it.)

As for when this would take place, my preference is to make the story fairly late in the war to avoid the implication that the Leo Stone did absolutely nothing for over a decade. Around the fortieth year sounds good to me, with the relatively mysterious death of King Denamda IV possibly being worked into the plot. It should be noted that Balbaneth's older sons were already active before Denamda IV died, as Zalbaag's profile mentions praise Zalbaag received from Denamda IV for his victories during the war.

Conscript
I was thinking the main character could be an average man who was conscripted into the Ivalician Army from Zelamonia during Year 31 of the war, ostensibly to defend his homeland.  Instead, following the Romanda invasion, he gets sent off to defend Ivalice and following the chaos of the Ivalician invasion, is forced to commit atrocities against Ivalice's people to "keep order".  Horrified by his actions (and by the fact Ivalice is truly no better than Ordallia), he is finally granted leave after he learns his wife died of plague, leaving him with a daughter to take care of.  Only a few years pass before Ordallia invades again, forcing him into the local militia, where he meets his end.

Ordallian Spy
An Ordallian spy deep inside enemy territory.  All of the hirelings are Ivalician, however, so he's acting incognito.  When he happens upon Gafgarion in Fovoham and beholds his anarchic brutality on the front-lines, it isn't just to weaken the Ivalice campaign, it is to stop a fiend from destroying both kingdoms to win the war.  The same could be said of fighting against Gustav, who was a routine offender during the war.  Before he or she can be congratulated, the spy returns to Ordalia before suspicions arise and they reinstate the cutthroat on a technicality.

Desperate Soldier
A soldier from either administration dredged into a peasant revolt.  While his team attempts to put down the revolt, both sides resort to vile associations with monsters and use unthinkable tactics.  Petitions to the Queen and the regional governors are fruitless.  However, the officer receives help from an unlikely source: the Death Corps (Knights of Death/Dead Men/Corpse Brigade), with the reigning aide-de-camp Milleuda providing both a tender ear and a trusty sword-arm when things start to fall apart.

Missing Elidibus
Investigate the disappearance of Elidibus, the wizard who retook Riovanes Castle and vanished into thin air.  This can take the protagonist all over the world.  The objective is to eventually happen upon the Deep Dungeon, advance to the lowest point and engage Elidibus himself.  However, it doesn't end there.  If you choose to fight him, he will kick your butt or merely retreat.  If you pause to consider his position, you will become his little accomplice, setting out to claim Zodiac Brave Stones.  The Libra Stone is in Orlandeau's hands, while Taurus is found inside Goug's mines.  However, your character gets second thoughts each time and comes up with nothing to show.  Elidibus ends up slaying you, and the legend of the Deep Dungeon is born from your corpse: a legendary mercenary that was done in there.

Quman

For the record, my submission doesn't require Simon to be the player's character. We can create an original character that we have more freedom with and make Simon a major NPC like Delita is in FFT.

Neophyte Ronin

July 13, 2012, 08:27:10 am #125 Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 11:25:04 am by formerdeathcorps
Quote from: formerdeathcorps on July 10, 2012, 10:43:30 pm
If we can expand on Plot I, I'd definitely consider it.

I don't understand Plot II.  What are the "both sides" you are referring to?  What exactly are the petitions to the Queen for?  Are the Death Corps suppressing the revolt or helping further it?  Why exactly are the official troops unable/unwilling to do anything?


A soldier from either administration dredged into a peasant revolt.  While his team attempts to put down the revolt, both sides resort to vile associations with monsters and use unthinkable tactics.  Petitions to the Queen and the regional governors are fruitless.  However, the officer receives help from an unlikely source: the Death Corps (Knights of Death/Dead Men/Corpse Brigade), with the reigning aide-de-camp Milleuda providing both a tender ear and a trusty sword-arm when things start to fall apart.


Either administration = North Sky or South Sky.  Both agencies, toward the war's end, suffered the need to quell revolts within the kingdom.

The use of dirty tactics to put down a revolt (or have it succeed) employs monsters specifically to feature them during story fights and, if they're redone like how Dome did Plus, they can be actual threats that you'd want on your side.  It also stains the moral candor of the protagonist, who is forced to go along with these tricks.  It necessitates monster recruitment.

Petitions to the Queen are meant to illustrate the ambivalence between her and the Board of Chamberlains and of the peasants' outrage.  The perception of her as a tyrant was glazed over in favor of focusing on the Zodiac Brave Story.  Since we don't wish to repeat the themes of the original game, a different lens upon the setting is in order.

The Knights of Death were volunteers, though their exact service to the army was unclear.  Since they were formed due to diminishing strength of the army, they might have been doing the things that the regular army didn't want to bother with, including the quelling of peasant revolts.  These revolts would then inspire the Knights of Death later, but for now, they had a war to fight.

In short, the good cops became vigilantes later.  I figured the Knights of Death were cool enough to feature; Option Two takes place just before the war's end, right before they turn sour.  It lets us make them into Guest Characters if we wanted.

Did that clear things up?  My second option was hastily written, but this is what I thought of when I wrote it.

Kagebunji

Just in case you guys would decide on plot choice of Lucavi...
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

formerdeathcorps

July 13, 2012, 12:25:57 pm #127 Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:48:31 pm by formerdeathcorps
Neophyte, I understand your intent now, but your plot makes no sense.

1) If the official Nanten + Hokuten cannot fight off the Ordallians, it would make sense for Ivalice to deliberately encourage the formation of peasant militias in the occupied zones throughout Zeltennia as a last-ditch effort.  In other words, a peasants' revolt in Zeltennia would not be suppressed by a desperate Ivalice army for the simple reason that it would also pose problems for Ordallia's occupation.
2) Thus, this scenario could have only occurred in Ivalice's back line, in Gallionne.  Hearing the news of the official loosening of restraint on serfdom, many in Gallionne decided to revolt.  The use of monsters by Ivalice is a nice touch, I admit, but the role of the Death Corps makes no sense.  We know from the game that they used assassination and kidnapping and this was sanctioned by Ivalice.  In terms of tactics, it is ineffective to use assassination and kidnapping against peasant revolts; they are motivated more by rage than by leaders and organization.  We also know that although Ivalice lost the war, Ordallia had no more will to fight (meaning it had no more military momentum).  This means Ivalice must have shifted battle tactics into destroying Ordallian morale and organization.  Thus, it makes the most sense to argue that the Death Coirps were using those guerrilla tactics against the Ordallians (and not the people of Gallionne).  Their subsequent lack of recognition for finding the winning strategy would certainly give them reason to revolt.
3) If the insurrection in Gallionne was truly as large as you say, the Hokuten would have stood no chance against the subsequent Death Corps' led revolution.  Just think, if the Hokuten hadn't the troops to repel a revolution composed of the old, the young, and the infirm (since everyone else would have been conscripted) during the war, how were they going to repel the same revolt after thousands of experienced veterans had joined them?  The kidnapping of Elmdor was a ploy by Dycedarg to win public opinion, but that implied the existence of a majority of neutral civilians before the war began (merchants, unaligned peasants, etc.)  If the scale of your revolts was truly this massive before the 50 Years' War even ended, Dyce's gambit would have failed (as his trick would appeal to virtually no one).
4) If the Death Corps had participated in the counterrevolution against Ivalice's own people during the war, no one would have trusted them after the war to lead the rebellion.

Thus, if you want to run this plot, I think we need to limit the scope to something like this.
1) Ivalice is desperate and encourages peasant militias in Zeltennia only, by secret order.  (The secrecy is to stop the spread of the information to Gallionne, where protests would serve no military purpose.)
2) The news trickles to Gallionne anyways, rekindling interest in rebellion.  However, since most villages and towns are deprived of their sons and daughters due to conscription, plague, and the previous suppression during Denamda IV's reign, very few actually revolt.
3) The few that do revolt, however, cause the Queen to panic and she sends in what few reserves are left to make an example of the most outspoken villages.  The player-character, for example, could be a member of the Lesalia palace guards.  He is accustomed to civility and dueling, not counterinsurgency warfare.  Augmenting these brigades are the most merciless mercenaries and criminal organizations, alongside their monster pets.
4) Horrified at the senseless slaughter, the player-character writes repeated letters to the Queen, but to no avail.  Realizing the futility, he decides to personally confront the mercenaries, arresting them himself.

From there, I'm sure we could build a plot.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

formerdeathcorps

Quote from: Jack of All Trades on July 11, 2012, 04:48:56 pm
I don't have any terrific plot ideas lined up. I would just like our story to lead into the first game. I'd like it to involve the new Lucavi Chaos, Exodus, Famfrit, Mateus, Shemhazai, Zeromus, and Elidibus as well.

I see know reason why we can't use an original plot and characters while still canonically giving credit to other characters as well. People would flip their shit to see appearances from Gafgarion, Simon, Balbanes, and Orlandu. Obviously some characters can't interact with plot elements like the Lucavi or even other characters.

I'd also, like to see some plot thread for a sequel to the original sewn in. A prophet or a prophecy with information about the 3 great disasters of Ivalice (Current game problem, second coming of Ultima, and finally the Calamity of the third game.


It is cool to have all those characters appear.  However, doing so puts demands on the storyboarders (like myself) because we have to find explanations for all the plot holes.  Not only is this harder to do, as Raven noted, the resulting plot will look like fanservice.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Taichii

voted desperate soldier cause there was a word "desperate" on it xD
Please do share your ideas and suggestion for my project:
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS : LEGEND OF MANA

Join our RP :)
"Desperation"

"PAIN. THAT'S WHAT KEEPS YOU HUMAN"

Timbo

July 13, 2012, 03:10:51 pm #130 Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 03:24:21 pm by Jack of All Trades
Fan service indeed; are we not fans? So long as its written well then it's okay. However, I do agree with characters should react to plot. Plot should not react to characters. That said, Famfrit doesn't sound like a problem so much as an opportunity. If his stone is an Orlandu family heirloom then all you need is an Orlandu host and bam. After he dies the stone drops to the floor and gets left behind. An even cooler cameo shows baby Olan playing with it as it shines on menacingly.

Oh and it doesn't really seem to difficult for a couple of these plots to run parallel and intersect. Personally, I think it would be neat to see these guys doing more than just resurrecting one another. They make great villains for any story involving intrigue.

Hell, the Church could have a couple of them enslaved. Theirs could be a quest for revenge.
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Timbo

formerdeathcorps

1) Famfrit = Aquarius Stone = Found in Goland's Coal Mines
2) Libra = Orlandu's

My objection to fanservice is that it assumes implicitly you already know what FFT is about.  This makes certain story elements seem completely arbitrary from the standpoint of someone who's never played FFT.  It also makes characters some people would fawn over (Orlandu, Balbanes, Elibdus, and Simon) seem unimportant or completely flat.  Adding unimportant cameos has the problem of disorienting the reader/viewer because good story writing is tight: it doesn't introduce characters for the sake of it.

If any of you need an example of what I mean, look at the Katia Managan fanfic.  Although I have philosophical disagreements with the way Kazarad approaches his story, it is still fairly engaging because you need NO knowledge of Oblivion to understand the misadventure and suffering of a loser catgirl.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Neophyte Ronin

Your amended version looks even better.  When will the voting end?

Edit: judging by current standing of the polls, sometime after a week.  The selections are really neck-to-neck, aren't they?

ShadowSkyle

Yes, this one may take a little time to end, mainly because there is no clear winner right now. All the votes are pretty spread out, and we'll need a few more in order to bring it to a close!

formerdeathcorps

July 13, 2012, 07:55:38 pm #134 Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 08:21:05 pm by formerdeathcorps
Shadow, I think part of the reason why there's so few votes this time around is because a lot of people do not like any of the plots represented and are having doubts about the project as a result.  After deciding an original character, we should have decided on the focus of the plot.
In other words, I think we need to have a poll to characterize the original character's associated groups, targets, and close friends (where each person can check as many as they wish to see).  Only after this poll should we vote on specific plots.

Simon
Khamja/Barinten/Rafa's village
Balbanes and/or Cid
Ordallia
Elibdis
Death Corps
Church
Peasantry
Other Groups

NOTE: It is actually canonically wrong to involve a plot including the Zodiac stones for the purpose of summoning Lucavi because it was made clear in FFT that their existence was unknown to everyone except Vormav, Draclau, Rofel, and Kletian at the start of FFT.  You create a time paradox if you unveil them during the 50 Years' War.  Even a "secret" hunt orchestrated by Elibdis/Funeral would defy the plot in multiple points, especially the finding of certain stones at the start of the Lion War and the fact that most of the stones were still not in the Church's hands at the start of the Lion War.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Fosil

Well spoken, FDC.
I shared the same feelings of mismatched characterization/group affiliations, but thought better to voice personal opinions when the actual story was evolving. I don't see things as set in stone, either.

And I'm just throwing this out there, so it is said: On the topic of characters--specifically the hero--he/she must have a goal, and someone/thing worth fighting for. Victory cannot always occur--but if so, the cost (loss of self/allies/etc, new enemies/etc) of winning is a high price that must be paid.
  • Modding version: PSX

Quman

Quote from: formerdeathcorps on July 13, 2012, 07:55:38 pmNOTE: It is actually canonically wrong to involve a plot including the Lucavi because it was made clear in FFT that their existence was unknown to everyone except Vormav, Draclau, Rofel, and Kletian at the start of FFT.


The Elidibus proposal has the player-character dying at the end, and my proposal focuses on members of the church. Note that everybody you just mentioned was aligned with the church. The only people outside of your list who learn about the plot with the Lucavi in my proposal will either end up dead, or end up at Orbonne translating ancient scriptures. I'll admit that it's a stretch to expand "Although he once served as a Church inquisitor, a certain incident led to his retirement, whereupon he withdrew to the remote sanctuary of Orbonne Monastery," into a story in which Simon becomes aware of the Lucavi, but neither proposal really makes the Lucavi public knowledge.

Quote from: formerdeathcorps on July 13, 2012, 07:55:38 pmYou create a time paradox if you unveil them during the 50 Years' War.


FFT ended with practically everybody that knew anything about the Lucavi dead. To assume that some new plot involving the Lucavi would end with a large number of people knowing about the Lucavi is unjustified.

Quote from: formerdeathcorps on July 13, 2012, 07:55:38 pmEven a "secret" hunt orchestrated by Elibdis/Funeral would defy the plot in multiple points, especially the finding of certain stones at the start of the Lion War and the fact that most of the stones were still not in the Church's hands at the start of the Lion War.


Did anyone actually suggest Funeral having anything to do with the plot? Anyway, I agree that Elidibus shouldn't have a lackey digging up Holy Stones in Goug only for them to magically become reburied so Mustadio can find them, and the Orlandeu thing is almost as bad. However, if the Elidibus proposal ends up being accepted, I highly doubt we're actually going to use those holy stones when Pisces and Sagittarius would work just as well without creating the same plot holes.

Of course, I'm perfectly content to keep the Lucavi out of the story if people prefer that. Avoiding them was my first impulse anyway, and I don't particularly care for the Elidibus proposal. The main reason I changed my mind about including the Lucavi was because I wanted to center the story around the church, and it would seem a bit odd to center a story around the church and not address the Lucavi plot that involved so many high-ranking officials in the church.

formerdeathcorps

July 13, 2012, 09:12:42 pm #137 Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 10:12:42 pm by formerdeathcorps
Two people in the Church knew of the Lucavi.
1) Vormav (who became possessed after his wife died of plague)
2) Draclau (who became possessed after discovering it)

NOTE: Funeral knows the stones exist, but not their dark secret.  Simon knows the Church was founded on a lie, but knows nothing else about the Lucavi.  He regards the stone hunt as simply a means of wrongfully extending influence.  The thing that caused Simon to leave the Heresy Examiners is his discovery of this fact, not that of the Lucavi.

I'd be fine with the Elibdis proposal if the final battle was to confront Elibdis and the player character gets turned into Byblos after the fact, realizing that it was all a horrible mistake.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Quman

The fact that Byblos has a random monster name might be a slight issue there, but not too bad considering Ramza would have no way to know Byblos' real name. But why are you for the idea if the protagonist turns into Byblos but against it if the protagonist ends up dead? I have my own reasons for not particularly caring for the idea, but I don't see how swapping out one unfortunate end for another would make a difference.

Anyway, I hereby withdraw my proposal. I still like the idea of centering the story around the church, and it might work if either Simon or the Lucavi were completely removed from the picture, but I don't feel like splitting my proposal and dragging things out when my proposal is only in third place anyway.

formerdeathcorps

Partly to tie up loose ends, Quman; I want some explanation for why Byblos opposed Elibdis, but the player dying is fine.  However, any scenario where the player survives the Deep Dungeon intact is probably a bad idea.  I just wasn't clear in the post before.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.