Final Fantasy Hacktics

Projects => Completed Mods => FFT Arena => Topic started by: FFMaster on January 03, 2011, 05:03:43 pm

Title: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: FFMaster on January 03, 2011, 05:03:43 pm
Firstly, I don't want people to post in the Master Guide at all to keep it as clean as possible, compared to say, the 1.3 Master Guide.

If anyone sees problems on it, or if some information is missing, then please tell me. Is it too early to put in a Credits section?

Finally, I need a team building guide, and I don't feel like I would be the right person to do this. If possible, I would want it so that a newer person to Arena can read it. If someone can do this, it would be great.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: CT5Holy on January 03, 2011, 06:48:46 pm
It'd be nice to show whether AUP or MAUP boosts damage for the new skills (like how Shuriken was boosted by MAUP - confusing!).

I would like to try and write a team building guide, but other people are welcome to write their own, if they want.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: The Damned on January 03, 2011, 09:24:25 pm
(First and foremost, thanks for adding the Fury explanation and excising Concentrate from the Archer list, FFM.)

What a team building guide even entail, though? I'm asking this because a stringent one kind of gives people the ideal that they're ideas are automatically limited rather than testing them out and it being without a somewhat stable format would be kind of pointless.

The best thing I could think of be to inform people what the AI prioritizes and how to go from there.  That may just be me, though.

For the record, I also don't think that the AUP and MAUP thing is necessary since the formulas are already there.

As for what I think needs to be added, they should probably be a line under Items to tell/remind (newer) people that Longbows are the only Indirect weapons. Similarly, you might want to mark what physical techniques, if any, are Indirect. Other than that (and realizing that Kikuichimoji has no room to say that it's Linear), all I'm seeing "problem"-wise are typo-related or arguable changes about abilities.

EDIT: Oh, and the Status Effect part is down now. (Also, Crystal was misspelled the first time around.)

EDIT II: As something of a compromise to what CT5Holy wanted, it would probably benefit a bit to say which weapons benefit from Attack UP/are physical and which ones benefit from Magic Attack UP/are magical for those are less aware or are forgetful or are unsure. I know that one person, at least, accidentally ended up using Two Swords Flails with PA Save, which effectively was a waste of a reaction slot.

Similarly, it would be beneficial to put a few reminders about Jump's odd qualities, such as not being affected by Martial Arts despite being physical and being elementally neutral regardless of the weapons that's used (unless you fixed that with the sword skill elemental carryover thing). That's all I can think of at present.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: FFMaster on January 04, 2011, 12:57:53 am
Yes, I think the best idea for a guide would be to talk about what the AI prioritises. I would maybe also include a few strong strategies that the team builder should watch out for when building teams.

As for Shuriken, I'm trying to fix that issue, and hopefully, it will be AUP based and P-EV next version.

Fixed status tables and added line about Longbows being indirect. Can someone give me all the Weapon Formulae as well? May as well put them all there, so people don't have to look at the Master Guide so much.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: The Damned on January 04, 2011, 01:14:21 am
Whoops, I edited that above post before I saw were you posting here.

Anyway, here are the (original) weapon formulas--I'm not sure what you changed outside of taking the Brave/Fury out of Katana and Knight Swords (?) and making Flails WP*WP:




For the record, using/showing the formula for weapons kills two birds with one stone with regards to that physical/AUP and/or magical/MAUP weapon thing I just edited in as a question.

As always, thanks for the quick work.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: FFMaster on January 11, 2011, 09:10:25 pm
Added a bit on unit action priorities in the Base Mechanics.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: The Damned on January 11, 2011, 09:37:20 pm
I think I might of forgotten something since I didn't want to double post, but the one I did want to ask you is it would be possible to say which healing effects still heal the Undead and which healing effects hurt them. You know, stuff like Chakra & Life Song vs. White Magic & Item.

Thanks regardless.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: LordBobBree on March 18, 2012, 09:41:36 pm
The damage formulas for Meiton, Fuuton, and Suiton seem to be incorrect.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Soleil on March 18, 2012, 10:14:01 pm
This isn't a complaint, but a question. I'm thinking I should post it here, because I don't want to create an entire thread for one single question.

What are the rules for items in your inventory? I'm rather new to this, but say I had a Ninja with Throw, what items could I have in the inventory for him to Throw?
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Eternal on March 18, 2012, 10:25:43 pm
Well, Ninja don't have throw anymore, but each player has infinite amounts of items to use.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Soleil on March 18, 2012, 10:34:05 pm
Thank you! I didn't know about Ninja's losing throw, guess I have a lot to learn. New fangled patches are a strain on my poor mind.
Cheers man.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Eternal on March 18, 2012, 10:37:02 pm
Haha, it can be a lot at first. Check the Arena Master Guide to get acquainted with the new changes. :)
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Barren on March 18, 2012, 10:39:48 pm
And Welcome to FFH Soleil where all your dreams come true!
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Soleil on March 18, 2012, 10:56:48 pm
Thanks to both of you for the warm welcomes! I've been playing quite a lot of FFT on my Playstation recently, just found this whole community of fans, I had no idea it had a following like this.

I've been reading lots of tutorials and watching lots of videos, but it's yet to sink in if you know what I mean. Who knows, maybe I'll be able to participate in the next season!
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Eternal on March 18, 2012, 10:57:44 pm
Even if your team isn't amazing, it's still the process of making one that's fun. Don't be afraid to try it out! Barren here records test matches, so you can see how to improve your team over time.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Reks on March 18, 2012, 11:02:14 pm
Heh... Just do what I did: throw a team together, request some matches, and change accordingly. Works better than you'd think, and you can always ask for help if you think you'll need it!

And for the Master Guide, can't quite think of anything wrong with it atm.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Soleil on March 18, 2012, 11:06:27 pm
Yeah, you all have great point. I'm still downloading Excel (I own it, but never bothered to install it), but then I'll start messing around ASAP. While it's loading I've been watching a bucketload of recorded matches, so I've got a strategy or two in mind. I'm also a force to be reckoned with when it comes to vanilla, so hopefully those skills will transfer over.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Avalanche on March 22, 2012, 02:47:28 pm
i think plus the magic attack up and attack up. It would be nice to see what abilities and weapons are actualy faith or brave (or fury) bases.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Eternal on March 22, 2012, 08:38:31 pm
I'm fairly sure everything that uses the Attack command uses Fury, regardless of what weapon type it is.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Avalanche on March 22, 2012, 09:05:42 pm
I had magic-guns in mind but i think their formula is added.But  is grand cross fury based?
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: TrueLight on March 22, 2012, 10:07:00 pm
Quote from: Avalanche on March 22, 2012, 09:05:42 pm
I had magic-guns in mind but i think their formula is added.But 

The three physical type guns (Romanda, Mythril, Stone) are all fury based while the three magical guns (Blaze, Blast, Glacier) are all faith based.

Quote from: Avalanche on March 22, 2012, 09:05:42 pmis grand cross fury based?
Yes.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Fanatic on May 06, 2012, 10:12:51 pm
So... I understand charging no longer offers a 3/2 modifier to damage. If this is so, shouldn't it be somewhere in the base mechanics section? Or am I looking in the wrong place...

Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Fantactic1316 on May 11, 2012, 09:01:23 pm
Esuna and Stigma Magic have inaccurate descriptions. They both list C: Brsk, but they don't. -.-

Just thought someone might want to know.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: CupOfOrangeJuice on May 17, 2012, 06:46:27 pm
If you can you should try to get rid of Crystals in this game.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: The Damned on May 17, 2012, 07:19:29 pm
(I might as well do this before I leave since I don't want to double post in the stats thread.)

Since I also might as well post something that's amiss on the Master Guide and hasn't been mentioned on here, I figure that I might as well mention that Cross Bow apparently is adding +1 PA that it isn't documented as adding and thus probably shouldn't be adding (even though Cross Bow currently needs all the help it could get). Despite the highly likely chance that Cross Bow is changing to be actually usable otherwise, it seems like something that needs to be addressed if only so that it isn't repeated. Its mention by a couple of people got swallowed due to how quickly the stats/abilities thread has been moving in the past week, so I figured it bared repeating in the appropriate thread given how easy it is to miss minor things when you're editing things en masse.

For something that's extremely nit-picky, the instance of "Cancel: Wind Water" that belongs to Vanish Mantle is missing the comma it should have that Platina Shield has. That too won't matter much soon, though.

Now, for the reason that I'm actually posting in here.

Quote from: fattyzila on May 17, 2012, 06:46:27 pm
If you can you should try to get rid of Crystals in this game.


Uh, there are at least two significant things that are wrong with this request:

1. This isn't the thread for requests, just for pointing out errors in the Master Guide.

2. It would probably help to give reasons for why you think this should be instead of just asking for it, especially since it would be such a big change.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: CupOfOrangeJuice on May 22, 2012, 01:09:03 pm
Well, I mainly say it should be removed since it is a instant heal, and it is mostly luck based on who actually gets the crystal.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: reinoe on November 17, 2012, 08:53:12 pm
I noticed that between the male vs female for some of the base classes units there isn't parity in the stat conversions.

For example a Male Knight has...
PA 10, MA 5,
A Female Knight has...
PA 8, Ma 6.

A Male Monk has...
PA 13, MA 5
A female Monk has...
PA 10, MA 6

There are similar discrepancies with Time Mage, Wizard, Summoner, and Oracle.

It's already been mentioned, but as a reminder, the Geomancer stats haven't been updated yet.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2012, 08:46:17 pm
"parity"?

Also, obligatory rabblerabblerabble.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: reinoe on November 19, 2012, 12:45:46 am
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2012, 08:46:17 pm
"parity"?

Also, obligatory rabblerabblerabble.


A male monk has 13 PA and 5 MA

A female monk has only 10 PA and 6MA
Shouldn't a female Monk have an MA of 8 to make up for the loss of PA?
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 19, 2012, 01:30:09 am
No.  That has to do with the way Raws and Multipliers work.  All Males and all Females each have the same Raw stats, which you can see in the Master Guide.  The primary difference is that on Males and Females, the PA and MA is flipped based on which gender it is.  Males and Females in each Job also have the same Multipliers because Multipliers do not change with Gender.  All Monks have the same MAM, etc.  The 1 MA difference is due to the fact the Monk's Multiplier is so low.  Proportionally, the difference between 5 and 6 is about equal to the difference between 10 and 13, the main difference is that 5 and 6 both suck because the Monk's MAM sucks.  (The Female Monk's MA should really be around 6.5 but FFT ignores decimals and truncates them, before you mention it.)  Making a Female Monk have 8 starting MA without changing anything else is basically impossible and would lack mathematical parity anyway as the difference between 5 and 8 is proportionally larger than 10 to 13. (60% to 30% roughly.)

So everything is working exactly as it's supposed to.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: reinoe on May 30, 2013, 01:06:12 am
I noticed something hilarious thanks to CT5HOLY's video.

Hawk's Eye takes on the element of the weapon that's being used.  I found out when one of my Archer's helpfully healed an Undead unit and applied Oil and poison as well.  Some people probably knew that already but I was running Hawks Eye to get around units with Fire nullification.  Lesson learned.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: The Damned on July 02, 2013, 10:54:58 pm
(I think I just noticed something that either I should have noticed earlier or shows how easily mistaken I am. For once, those are mutually exclusive [here].)

So, when looking at the Master Guide to try to calculate something at 100%, I realized something looked kinda...off about the Faith formula: Shouldn't the "100000" there actually be "10000"?

The same goes for the UnFury formula. It seems like they either both have one extra zero, especially compared to the Fury formula & no one noticed in all this time, or that I am mistaken & no one else gets has to look like a jack-ass.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: FFMaster on July 03, 2013, 07:17:16 pm
Huh... so it is too...

Fixed and thanks for noticing that.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: The Damned on July 06, 2013, 01:35:32 pm
(Good to know. Also, not a problem given all I do is nag you anyway.)

Given that I "promised" Avalanche I would post a reminder this morning...and then immediately forgot, I might as well say it now before I leave:


FFMaster, please post a note in the third post of the Master Guide, about how the color Purple's crystals are still game-breakingly buggy--perhaps because they contain Oprah & Whoopi Goldberg awkwardly kissing--and thus shouldn't be used.

A brief parenthetical statement next to #5 Purple should suffice.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: JamesOnyx on July 06, 2013, 05:51:20 pm
I'd also like to point out that I couldn't find anywhere in the master guide that explains exactly how Chronos Trigger/Dragon Spirit activate.  While testing out which reaction abilities apply to Lore skills, those two would refuse to activate but would seem to trigger when hit by physical attacks so I'm guessing that's how they work.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: reinoe on July 06, 2013, 05:54:08 pm
Yeah, some reaction don't just trigger by being attacked, some triggers are either magical or physical attacks.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Dokurider on July 06, 2013, 06:05:29 pm
Chrono Trigger is activated by damage, not just by getting attacked.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: Gaignun on July 06, 2013, 09:51:06 pm
Dragon Spirit triggers when targeted by physical attacks.  It doesn't matter if the attack hits or misses.  I am not sure if it triggers off of physical abilities (like Punch Art), though.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: JamesOnyx on July 06, 2013, 10:03:49 pm
For noobs, wouldn't it be best if we figured all of these things out and put them in the master guide???  That way we wouldn't have to go back and forth on something like this.

I would recommend wording all of those abilities like so:

*Performs Action* when (targeted/damaged) by a (physical/magical/standard) attack.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: CT5Holy on July 06, 2013, 10:59:06 pm
Quote from: Gaignun on July 06, 2013, 09:51:06 pm
Dragon Spirit triggers when targeted by physical attacks.  It doesn't matter if the attack hits or misses.  I am not sure if it triggers off of physical abilities (like Punch Art), though.


It should trigger off of anything physical.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: JamesOnyx on July 06, 2013, 11:23:38 pm
Quote from: Dokurider on July 06, 2013, 06:05:29 pm
Chrono Trigger is activated by damage, not just by getting attacked.


Are you sure Chrono Trigger is activated by just damage?  My Priest was at a 40/70 so about a 55% proc rate and I tested it out in like 5-6 matches having her take half damage from Maelstrom and it never occurred once.  Then some random dude decides to walk up and hit her and it immediately goes off  :?

At least I know it's true for Dragon Spirit now, which is a little disappointing but completely understandable.

Reactions that I tested that would go off from Maelstrom were:


Auto Potion
Speed Save
PA Save
MA Save
HP Restore
MP Restore
Distribute


I'm pretty sure Brave Up/Faith Up would proc too, and of course MP Absorb but I never tested it.  I don't know about Regenerator, that's the only one I'm questionable on now.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: reinoe on July 06, 2013, 11:25:31 pm
Faith Up triggers because it's magic.  I don't know if Brave UP triggers because that reaction is terrible.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: CT5Holy on July 06, 2013, 11:30:24 pm
Chrono Trigger, like Dragon Spirit, will trigger off of physical attacks. My hypothesis is that since Chrono Trigger used to be Sunken State, it has the same trigger conditions as Sunken State, which I believe are the same as Dragon Spirit.

Correction, reinoe - Faith UP triggers when the unit is affected by an ability that costs MP. So Sing/Dance will trigger Faith UP. I believe Absorb MP works the same way.
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: reinoe on July 06, 2013, 11:36:02 pm
Quote from: CT5Holy on July 06, 2013, 11:30:24 pm
Chrono Trigger, like Dragon Spirit, will trigger off of physical attacks. My hypothesis is that since Chrono Trigger used to be Sunken State, it has the same trigger conditions as Sunken State, which I believe are the same as Dragon Spirit.

Correction, reinoe - Faith UP triggers when the unit is affected by an ability that costs MP. So Sing/Dance will trigger Faith UP. I believe Absorb MP works the same way.

Excellent!  CT5HOLY is a fountain of wisdom!  And now to look through the team submissions thread to see if anyones even used Brave UP, because that reaction is oh so bad...
Title: Re: Thread for people to complain about the Master Guide
Post by: The Damned on July 13, 2013, 03:04:25 am
(No one's used Brave Up in a while, partly because it costs too much and isn't nearly as abusive as Faith Up can be, which also sees very little use despite what CT5Holy pointed out.)

FFMaster! Come hither! For I have yet another item to nag you about while I eternally neglect my own patches!

In addition to the asking you to please decide on being consistent about "Blind" or "Darkness" in the Master Guide (not that vanilla was, which is part of the reason why I nag you about such things--you're better than that), I was finally reminded to also ask that you please make it apparent in procs of abilities with the same name as status whether it is said status or the spell. For instance, making it apparent on something like Poison Rod that it's the status Poison being proc'd at 100% and not the spell Poison.

And so on and so on.

So asketh (read: demandeth) the Complainer. (Like Uatu, but more annoying.)