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Voldemort's continuing decent into madness:

Started by Havermayer, December 07, 2011, 10:06:02 pm


Kaijyuu

Other than the sprite being rather meh, I don't really see any problem with replacing panthers.
  • Modding version: PSX

Eternal

For PW, I replaced Uribos with Tonberries, and that seemed to work out fairly nicely and it was a smooth transition. I'm surprised he didn't do away with Uribos for 'em too.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Havermayer

Quote from: Eternal248 on December 07, 2011, 10:19:52 pm
For PW, I replaced Uribos with Tonberries, and that seemed to work out fairly nicely and it was a smooth transition. I'm surprised he didn't do away with Uribos for 'em too.


Yeah, that works much better as a replacement.  Uribos are a rare monster (like Tonberries), while Panthers are a much more common one.  It affects the game a lot to remove them.

Also: the FFT engine is rather limited.  I think the whole endeavour to make a "sorta new FFT fan game" (which is what Voldemort is seemingly doing) is rather pointless. 

Eternal

I hate to say it, but he's walking on ground already walked then. CCP, CoP, and PW already fill that "new FFT fan game" spot without the huge difficulty that a lot of people don't enjoy. So I dunno, I wish he'd scale back to his original goal of making 1.3 a harder/rebalanced FFT. It worked out well for him, and there's no reason to change that now.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Havermayer

Quote from: Eternal248 on December 07, 2011, 10:52:33 pm
I hate to say it, but he's walking on ground already walked then. CCP, CoP, and PW already fill that "new FFT fan game" spot without the huge difficulty that a lot of people don't enjoy. So I dunno, I wish he'd scale back to his original goal of making 1.3 a harder/rebalanced FFT. It worked out well for him, and there's no reason to change that now.


Well, he's kind of gone insane.

Anyways, if you want to make a "fan FFT game", then I really think we can just make a new indie game.  The engine for FFT is very limited in what you can do (compare it to, say Tactics Ogre).  I played Ace of Spades, it's alright, but it doesn't seem that hard.  As long as you don't violate copyright law, you should be fine. 

Eternal

I dunno, FFT has a lot more variety in its ability/equipment system than, say, TO, unless you mean the PSP version. It also has the most tools and ASM knowledge currently, so it just seems easier to muck around with FFT. Also, Haver, you should come on IRC sometime. :P
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

GeneralStrife

OMG, Kage he gave you credit.

Also, wtf panthers? Uribo like you guys said....is the ideal replacement.....both are rare....small....I'm just not feeling it.....derp.

Celdia

Does this really deserve our attention anymore? -__-
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Celdia#0

dinosaur

Quote from: Celdia on December 07, 2011, 11:41:03 pm
Does this really deserve our attention anymore? -__-


It isn't the old 1.3. It is Arch's own fun patch. Get over it.

Maybe we should start freaking out when CCP, COP or FFH+ get an update ... hm?! Show our fellow members of FFH support rather than Arch.

dinosaur

But on a discussion level ...

I say awesome for PW for the work on Tonberry :D And Worker 8 ... oh my ... don't how know that will pan out.... He is very strong now (more so then before)!

Dome

The thing that I dislike most is what happens if someone has an already finished end-game save
He has to start over if he wants a legit worker 8 with items, which sucks (Same thing happened with Onion Knight, Death Knight and White Chocobo)
And if someone used monsters, he has to dismiss all panthers and look for tomberries, otherwise inconsistences in stats may happen

Anyway:
Both ideas are nice (Imho), but the whole Tomberry stuff looks Overpowered and out of place for 1.3 (Or maybe, what 1.3 was meant to be at the beginning)
Worker 8 with item is now usable (Expecially because he can use elixir) unless if still has 12 speed at level 99, because if he does, it's useless (in 1.3 you can stack a lot of +speed items)

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

GeneralStrife

Quote from: Dome on December 08, 2011, 04:00:23 am
The thing that I dislike most is what happens if someone has an already finished end-game save
He has to start over if he wants a legit worker 8 with items, which sucks (Same thing happened with Onion Knight, Death Knight and White Chocobo)
And if someone used monsters, he has to dismiss all panthers and look for tomberries, otherwise inconsistences in stats may happen

Anyway:
Both ideas are nice (Imho), but the whole Tomberry stuff looks Overpowered and out of place for 1.3 (Or maybe, what 1.3 was meant to be at the beginning)
Worker 8 with item is now usable (Expecially because he can use elixir) unless if still has 12 speed at level 99, because if he does, it's useless (in 1.3 you can stack a lot of +speed items)

Uh Dome apparently elixir is gone replaced with something hell if I know what it is.

Dome

Quote from: GeneralStrife on December 08, 2011, 04:32:17 am
Uh Dome apparently elixir is gone replaced with something hell if I know what it is.

Elixir got removed from the player's arsenal
Can be used only by worker 8 and some enemy unit

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: Celdia on December 07, 2011, 11:41:03 pm
Does this really deserve our attention anymore? -__-


Quote from: dinosaur on December 08, 2011, 12:30:40 am
It isn't the old 1.3. It is Arch's own fun patch. Get over it.

Maybe we should start freaking out when CCP, COP or FFH+ get an update ... hm?! Show our fellow members of FFH support rather than Arch.


>Make annoyed post asking why people keep flipping out over every 1.3 update.
>Completely miss the point, say "Get over it" over something not being said, then reiterate the exact same point as quoted post.
>

This makes me realize how mediocre that Tonberry sprite actually turned out though.  It looks ridiculous sitting on the Formation Screen next to proper units, even with Twinees' fixes.  I think the hood needs to be raised higher instead of having the entire head being revealed, among other things, to fix some of that sprite's awkwardness.

I'll toss another at replacing Panther instead of a rarer monster like the Uribo with Tonberry, though.  Glad to see Worker 8 finally got a fucking Item command of his own.  Now if he only got Fly, unless he already got that in a previous version and I missed it.

Barren

My question about Voldemort's latest release

  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

Kagebunji

Oh, I don't know if any of you knew, but I am working for a few days on a new Tonberry(not really new, just a cleaned up version of the old one, since it was a straight rip), Twinees inspired me to rework Tonberry :P

And I see really nothing wrong with Arch using our sprites, he gives credits, so it is all cool.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

Havermayer

Quote from: Eternal248 on December 07, 2011, 11:03:47 pm
I dunno, FFT has a lot more variety in its ability/equipment system than, say, TO, unless you mean the PSP version. It also has the most tools and ASM knowledge currently, so it just seems easier to muck around with FFT.


This is what I meant.  Compare FFT and TO maps and characters.  FFT has much smaller maps, with far fewer amount of characters on them.  The limitations of the PS1 are the cause of this, sadly.  It also is missing a few cool features (2 player mode for instance).   FFT does have a lot of cool things going for it, but in some ways it was a step backwards.  This is why we should stop messing with FFT.  Let it die.  

Make a new game that acts as a spiritual successor, it will give us so much more freedom.  As long as it avoids violating copyright law, I see no problem.  

Quote
Also, wtf panthers? Uribo like you guys said....is the ideal replacement.....both are rare....small....I'm just not feeling it.....derp.


I asked Voldemort.  He replaced Uribos with Cactuars.  

Eternal

  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

formerdeathcorps

December 08, 2011, 04:49:47 pm #19 Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 04:57:54 pm by formerdeathcorps
To be honest, Arch is making a patch, just like we are.  He's messing with the game to do what he thinks is "cool", just like we are.  Yes, we've had our disagreements with him before, but he's not here anymore.  Why are we even caring what he does to the game?  Does it matter if it's not original?  Does it matter if it shows a contempt for the player by being difficult?  If people on ID are contributing to the project and people on ID want to play it, we should be content.
To be honest, we really aren't much better than ID in making community projects.  We have Dome's project (FFT+), Celdia's project (CCP), ETernal's project (PW), and Kokojo's project (CoP).  There are testers who give advice/inspiration to mechanics, but few group decisions.  There are also "experts" in spriting and ASM who provide their services and point out limitations, but very rarely do they do more than provide advice.  Don't give me the BS that people have different viewpoints and thus can never agree (since that implies everyone is also obstinately proud and unyielding), no one on here has seriously tried to make a project where decisions were made as a group.
If 1.3 becomes big again (and by consequence, Arch/ID), why should we be worried?  We're not rivals, at least not anymore (especially since nothing really stops you from being a dual member).

Quote from: Havermeyer
Anyways, if you want to make a "fan FFT game", then I really think we can just make a new indie game.  The engine for FFT is very limited in what you can do (compare it to, say Tactics Ogre).  I played Ace of Spades, it's alright, but it doesn't seem that hard.  As long as you don't violate copyright law, you should be fine.

Compare FFT and TO maps and characters.  FFT has much smaller maps, with far fewer amount of characters on them.  The limitations of the PS1 are the cause of this, sadly.  It also is missing a few cool features (2 player mode for instance).   FFT does have a lot of cool things going for it, but in some ways it was a step backwards.  This is why we should stop messing with FFT.  Let it die.  

Make a new game that acts as a spiritual successor, it will give us so much more freedom.


Advantages to hacking FFT over PSP LuCT:
Hacking is not stifled by DRM/compression stupidities.  As a result, more tools exist and they can go further in depth.  This has created operational inertia: we aren't even done with exploring FFT and are best tools are for it, so we have little mental need to leave.
FFT AI > LuCT AI.
PSP and most of its emulators have no debugger, making most hacking difficult (because you have no understanding of what's in a RAM table).
FFT has a cleaner mechanics system.  Simple in its core, but difficult to master.  LuCT has way too many stats pertaining to one unit, most of which are UNNECESSARY.  They also lack sufficient early-game variety, while the late-game gear is all fairly arbitrary.  LuCT's system of job innates and skill mastery also offers the player less choice than FFT.  I haven't hacked LuCT so I don't know how easy it is to change, but it makes it a harder base to use.

Advantages to LuCT over FFT:
Bigger Map
More Units
Branching Storyline/Better Event Script System

Note that PvP is not an exclusive advantage for LuCT because FFT has debug mode.  And really, when you consider that even the PSX version of TO had a bigger map than FFT with more units, this isn't really a PS1 VRAM restriction problem, but an image compression problem.  FFT's maps and sprites are done in more detail than TO's; hence, we can't have as many of them.  Also, a bigger map means little if your units also move more squares per turn than in FFT.  Essentially, all the advantages LuCT has over FFT are things that hackers can resolve; all we need is image compression in FFT and event command rewrites (which Xif is working on).

Advantages of homebrew over hacking:
1) No copyright/DRM issues if done correctly
2) You can use advanced coding languages and translate into MIPS
3) You don't have to worry about hard-coded mechanics or inscrutable code (since you're the one writing it)
4) ROM size problems can be ignored.  If we're making a PC port, even RAM size is irrelevant since most modern PCs and laptops have far more usable RAM than the PSX/PSP (and it's highly unlikely we'll even use that much since we're probably not coding a 3D graphics/physics engine).

However, this requires us build EVERYTHING from scratch.  Also, a good number of us are actually more proficient in ASM than in C++.  In short, we will have to throw away everything FFT did right just to either jump through a legal hoop or to ensure total "freedom" to create a game.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.