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Tired of lolpatch

Started by Bastard Poetry, February 13, 2009, 01:21:57 pm

Quitcha Bitchin?

Yeah.. We're going overboard with this lolpatch war.
17 (44.7%)
Fuck you, Bastard.
4 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: February 13, 2009, 01:21:57 pm

Bastard Poetry

February 13, 2009, 01:21:57 pm Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Bastard Poetry
The phrase, I mean.

I'm tired of hearing about lolpatches.

I was, myself, greatly successful at just ignoring lolpatches and letting them fail or succeed in their own good time.

Now you guys are devoting more time and energy into destroying any and all patch ideas that seem like they might not go anywhere than the creators of lolpatches spend creating their lolpatch. That's dedication. But if a hundred topics about lolpatches die, and sit around here "taking up space," how does that actually effect any of us? It gives us more topics to ignore, and the few people interested in helping some poor dope and his or her new lolpatch will make friends and learn how to not get any further in their lolpatch together. In some RARE occasions, something will spark, and an amazing patch will suddenly be in the works--but that's certainly not going to happen if every lolpatch is judged right from the start and destroyed with impunity.

I agree that any up-and-coming lolpatch creator should put more time and effort into their patch before creating a topic. They should definitely have something to show for it. But you guys are talking elitist hierarchy--a near-Gamefaqs level of moderation. What good is a site like this, a site devoted to hacking FFT, if you won't even allow the half-interested just as much access to public attention as the extremely devoted? So what if they're only half-hearted about their ambitions? You guys really think they should drop their meager plans in order to contribute to larger, worthier projects with their meager abilities?

Maybe they only want to play around with the idea of hacking FFT for a short while, and then move on to other things. Not everyone makes this a hardcore hobby.

Don't get me wrong; those of us that are truly dedicated to our projects make this a great, strong community. But if we turn into a clique, and start making laws that prevent the up-and-coming talents from having a chance to prove themselves, then we're going to continue to be a small clique. If you want rules, keep them simple, so you don't alienate everyone right from the outset:

1) Don't post a new project with the expectation that others should do your work for you.

2) Take some time to gather your ideas, test them a bit and develop your goals before presenting it in a topic.

That's it. The dedicated will thrive, the half-hearted will fade into obscurity. Those of us interested enough in a good idea to support it will keep those topics alive.. and the rest will float down to the bottom without causing us any more grief.

The way you guys have been discussing lolpatches lately.. Well, let me put it this way: If I had never created the CoK, and I suddenly, today, posted a new topic about my idea to create a cinematic fanfiction of FFT, you'd judge it as a lolpatch and ridicule me into leaving before I could even finish the first scene. It wouldn't matter to you if I had a script, my characters, my ideas and my goals all lined up and written out; Asmo could take one look at it, see that it doesn't offer anything fresh to the community (as a plan, anyways), call it a lolpatch, and then everyone else would hop on board with him and fire the cannons until I sank.

Granted, I could hold off and not post anything until I had a completed first video, but those of you familiar with the CoK and its history know that the only reason I was able to finish The Villian of Ivalice was because I had such strong support from the Gamefaqs community. If I didn't have that, I would have stopped around the Grog Hill scene and decided that my time would be better spent working on my novels or short stories instead.

TL;DR

I think we should:

- moderate the new projects topics that LACK PRE-DEVELOPMENT

- Stop judging the ideas ourselves, and let them do what they do

- Allow success and failure to occur naturally
Final Fantasy Tactics - Thief SSCC:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73FB72C01D917FD6&feature=viewall

(Fully recorded LP; successes, failures, and most things inbetween)

Zozma

February 13, 2009, 01:23:33 pm #1 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Zozma
thank you
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
Wiegraf: Draw your sword Ramza!
Ramza: But im a monk!!

philsov

February 13, 2009, 01:25:26 pm #2 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
can't make a patch without experience

can't get experience without trying to make a patch

Come to FFH knowing everything about hacking already or gtfo.

~

On a slightly related note, anything I can help with on CoK, bp?
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

LastingDawn

February 13, 2009, 01:27:28 pm #3 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
My thoughts exactly... but the other's just won't see it this way. Maybe this will convince them. I honestly had no problem with them.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

SentinalBlade

February 13, 2009, 01:30:24 pm #4 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
I agree with most of this. but the problem with spamming lolpatches is its space that we PAY for. its not like zodiac pays 9.99 a month for unlimited space. he is allowed a set storage, and most likely if he were to go over that, he has a fee to pay, or the site goes down.

Saying that letting numerous topics sit and distill has no harm is like saying 'metallica sucks cause it doesnt rap enough'.

Asmo or VC as mods would be great, but i do hope that if one of them makes it as a mod, that they let some of these patches be. alot of them are good ideas, but there are so many vague and useless ones...those are the ones they are talking about getting rid of. things like call of power, that is a really good start to a project. asmo wouldnt remove something like that, even BEFORE the videos were released. especially not cause he didnt like it.

If it is  a fail idea, asmo would say so. but nto eveyones tastes are to asmo's. and he knows that. if someone likes something done one way, there are others out that may like it to. hes not going to delete it cause "it sucks" to him, hed delete it if the topic has serious developmental/informing problams.

philsov

February 13, 2009, 01:34:01 pm #5 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
QuoteI agree with most of this. but the problem with spamming lolpatches is its space that we PAY for. its not like zodiac pays 9.99 a month for unlimited space. he is allowed a set storage, and most likely if he were to go over that, he has a fee to pay, or the site goes down.

Considering most topics are just text (no ppf, uploaded images onto FFH space, etc), the bandwidth usage is minimal.  It's just text for the reader to wade through, but the data space argument is horrible.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Bastard Poetry

February 13, 2009, 01:34:52 pm #6 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Bastard Poetry
I should also add two points:

1 - I don't want to be the moderator of this board. Don't nominate me.

2 - The Villian of Ivalice was released in June of 2008. At the rate things are going, it's looking like Part 2 will be released around the same time, if not later. That's ONE WHOLE YEAR that Cheetah and I have spent working on it, and production has often been slowed or completely stopped by IRL disasters or obligations. There have been long periods of time where I haven't posted anything around here, I disappear, etc. But that doesn't mean I'm not dedicated to the project. It just means I have real life obligations that sometimes take priority over my hobbies. By the definitions expressed here lately, that puts me in the lolpatch zone.

Philsov, I appreciate the offer. At the moment, there isn't a whole lot to help with.. but then again, progress has slowed because A) I'm a full time student and full time employee, so my spare time is severely limited for the next few months and B) Cheetah is working full time as well, starting grad school and planning a wedding. We each have our to-do lists for the project, and it's just a matter of doing what we can when we can. Perhaps we could use some more help.. but I'd have to think about the logistics, as it can often become more complicated to take on more help, due to lengthy explanations and directions and such. Let me think about it, and I'll definitely contact you if I think of a way you could help.
Final Fantasy Tactics - Thief SSCC:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73FB72C01D917FD6&feature=viewall

(Fully recorded LP; successes, failures, and most things inbetween)

Archael

February 13, 2009, 01:54:47 pm #7 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
QuoteI was, myself, greatly successful at just ignoring lolpatches and letting them fail or succeed in their own good time.

That's nice. I'm sure we are all able to do that NP, and have been for awhile. The problem is that by current rules + voting system, anyone can get own forum section. While it is not a problem now (and probably won't be in the future when Zodiac re-works the way the projects are organized and divided) it will be a major problem when you see 8 different forum sections on a project that is basically the same glorified lolpatch.

QuoteBut if a hundred topics about lolpatches die, and sit around here "taking up space," how does that actually effect any of us?  

It'll convince Zodiac that something is indeed wrong and cause some changes to happen

how else did you think it can actually affect you?

If Asmo becomes moderator of this forum (best person for the job by far), your mother is gonna feel the effects

QuoteIn some RARE occasions, something will spark, and an amazing patch will suddenly be in the works--

Right, and it'll be the moderator's job to allow that patch to have its own topic and contribute ideas for it, maybe even 1 day getting it's own forum section

QuoteDon't get me wrong; those of us that are truly dedicated to our projects make this a great, strong community. But if we turn into a clique,

and this is where your entire argument hits a reality check fail

those of us that are truly dedicated to our projects are the people who make this site what it is

people like melonhead, lasting dawn, zodiac, you, zozma, and others

however if people who ARE NOT dedicated to their projects have a chance of getting own forum sections, they detract attention away from the projects that deserve work put into them

relying on the

Quotesuccess and failure to occur naturally

is not working, and is the entire reason the lolpatch issue has been started

if the

Quotesuccess and failure to occur naturally

was working on it's own, intervention would not be needed, and we would not be calling for New Projects to get it's own Moderator


And I'm sorry, but if Asmo saw a rough draft of the CoK (and based on what I have seen from your VERY early work) he would NOT delete any of that

I know you like to play devil's , but there IS something wrong with this section

and pretending like it'll go away on it's own is NOT the solution


TL:DR

I DISAGREE!!!!!


Asmo for moderator of this forum and all your lolpatch issues will go away, and you can be sure only quality IDEAS (not hacking talents, btw philsov, because we are all still learning just like the hacking n00bs) will get the attention they deserve

SentinalBlade

February 13, 2009, 01:59:43 pm #8 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
what arch, gonna ignore my money issue? :P that is a really good counter point to BPs "how does that actually effect any of us"

And it is agreed, arch. there isnt "ALOT" wrong with the section, other than lots of lolpatches/personal projects that are asking/recieving their own section. though i think BP missed this point

philsov

February 13, 2009, 02:07:25 pm #9 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
If money and bandwidth usage is really an issue, I nominate myself as moderator of the spam forum.  It contributes nothing to this site, and uses more bandwidth.  It should be the first to be culled.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Bastard Poetry

February 13, 2009, 02:07:47 pm #10 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Bastard Poetry
You speak as though the front page is overloaded with failed patches with their own forums.

All I see is:

Mercenaries

FFT v1.3

Symbols of Rage

FFT Remix


I think your response falls into what I described as "going overboard" in my poll. You're seeing a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger problem than most of us are seeing.

If the current voting method for getting a forum section is flawed, then why does the front page only have 4 main project boards?

If anything, when the community would give VOTES to nominate a project to its own section, it was done back when there weren't a lot of us in the community. I agree with an overhaul of how that system should work, to adapt with the changes, but do you see any of us throwing our votes into any and every good idea that shows up here anymore? A great idea is just a great idea; we don't think to nominate it for its own board until that great idea has become a year's worth of great ideas and legitimate progress has been made.
Final Fantasy Tactics - Thief SSCC:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73FB72C01D917FD6&feature=viewall

(Fully recorded LP; successes, failures, and most things inbetween)

SentinalBlade

February 13, 2009, 02:12:54 pm #11 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
Weird how you say that BP. i had a whole bunch of votes for little-to no project. barely even a class demo. granted i quickly exapnded, but even back when the community was small. it took 7 hours for me to get a forum section, with only screenshots.

agreed philsov. i take your point and eat my own.

Archael

February 13, 2009, 02:14:00 pm #12 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
QuoteIf the current voting method for getting a forum section is flawed,

it is lol

did you see Zozma's "HEY taim for FFT REmix own forum section" topic?

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2098

you'll get a kick out of that one

what we're saying is that's gonna happen again

change the system before it does

philsov

February 13, 2009, 02:16:10 pm #13 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
QuoteNew requirements to get a forum section will rise up like hell now. FFH became too big for just 100 points.

This is already acknowledged by zodiac.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Archael

February 13, 2009, 02:17:04 pm #14 Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 02:18:32 pm by Archael
Quote from: "philsov"
QuoteNew requirements to get a forum section will rise up like hell now. FFH became too big for just 100 points.

This is already acknowledged by zodiac.

ya

and you're still gonna see votes from guys like this:

Quotesame here, I haven't been following the patch but I still agree it should get a forum section

point system won't work even if it was 500 points

sorry

people vote based on what looks cool and flashy

not on projects that have people dedicated to finishing them / the time to make them worth a damn / good ideas

I'll repeat it again here: Asmo for moderator

Bastard Poetry

February 13, 2009, 02:18:24 pm #15 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Bastard Poetry
SentinalBlade, are you still working on your patch?

Are you still keeping up with this community, and posting frequently, and networking with the rest of us, and keeping a close eye on the talents and personalities of FFH?

Are you still motivated?

I'll go ahead and answer that: Yes, all of the above.

So shut up already. You deserve your forum section, because you're still an active creator. Even if you slow down, and even if it takes you two years to finish one chapter of your patch, you're still contributing to a great idea.

If we someday end up with "zomg 8 forum sections" of New Projects, and FFH spirals into the nightmare reality of too many great ideas being worked on by too many people, then Voldemort will be the first person I apologize to for allowing things to get that bad.

We should stop them all now, surely.
Final Fantasy Tactics - Thief SSCC:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73FB72C01D917FD6&feature=viewall

(Fully recorded LP; successes, failures, and most things inbetween)

SentinalBlade

February 13, 2009, 02:18:55 pm #16 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
havnt been following the patch...wtf? so he votes anyways?

it seems like of one person does it, the rest thinks its okay to do it.

Archael

February 13, 2009, 02:20:11 pm #17 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
Quote from: "bastardpoetry"when FFH spirals into the nightmare reality of too many great ideas being worked on by too many people, then Voldemort will be the first person I apologize to

that's exactly  the situation right now

except that our comminity is SO SMALL that the work being divided into the currently existing projects + lolpatches is causing the same exact splitting up of talent you are describing

except it's worse, because the good talent is being divided between good AND terrible ideas

I expect an apology via mail or email (or you can send a guy dressed in a teddy bear) soon!

SentinalBlade

February 13, 2009, 02:30:04 pm #18 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
Just to bakc up Voldemorts 'numerous personal patches' and work divided point...

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=support

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=support

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=support


thats 3. without searching. their names even have something akin to 'my patch' in the title

to back up Voldemorts voting thing

in the ovelia chapters topic. the ovelia chapters is clearly NOT A PATCH, but goomba clearly says
Quote from: "Goomba"I'd like to see this patch created.

we are giving this man the power to vote, over a topic that was tl;dr

It speculates much later in the topic, that it may become a patch, but right then, it was just a script of a story that was made up.

Bastard Poetry

February 13, 2009, 02:40:44 pm #19 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Bastard Poetry
Are you really saying that the Ovelia patch will have its own forum section within the next few months because of Goomba's joke post? Zodiac, and the numerous other people it takes to vote it up to the new quota of points, are not that stupid. Maybe that's the problem. You guys assume the voters are all retards, just because a handful of people like one idea in one topic, when the majority of people ignore it and don't vote. Notice that those projects don't have their own forum sections? You guys are getting too worked up over nothing.

Your assesment of how the "strong talents are being divided," really only applies to guys like Cheetah and Zozma, who lend their spriting expertise to anyone they feel like helping. Should it really matter if they choose to help me one minute and a guy with 2 posts the next? Do any projects suffer from the fact they happen to be talented, nice, and capable of helping many at once?

Perhaps I need to clarify this to you, Voldemort, because I don't think you even know what you're arguing with, against me. I think you're ignoring my points and fighting me on the ones you've wrapped yourself around in your own head.

MY POINT: A moderator for this forum IS needed, but s/he should monitor laziness; NOT judge ideas.

Read that again carefully, and let it soak in. I'm NOT saying that this section shouldn't have a moderator. I'm NOT saying that the voting system for getting forum sections is perfect. I'm NOT saying every idea is a great idea and deserves a forum section.

I'm saying you're TOO PISSED OFF and you're blindly taking it out on EVERY IDEA that arrives on the New Projects board now, assuming the worst of all of them. You believe that stupid voting will give all of them their own section, even though FFH history has shown that the best and brightest ideas are the only ones that get them.

Steps ARE being taken to increase the vote quota, Zodiac DOES pay attention to his forum, and I highly doubt--scratch that, DOWNRIGHT REJECT--the idea that a lame duck project would get its own forum section because too many people voted for it without thinking.
Final Fantasy Tactics - Thief SSCC:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73FB72C01D917FD6&feature=viewall

(Fully recorded LP; successes, failures, and most things inbetween)