• Welcome to Final Fantasy Hacktics. Please login or sign up.
 
March 28, 2024, 05:24:17 pm

News:

Don't be hasty to start your own mod; all our FFT modding projects are greatly understaffed! Find out how you can help in the Recruitment section or our Discord!


Arena battle videos and discussion

Started by PX_Timefordeath, August 04, 2010, 06:49:51 pm

RavenOfRazgriz

...How the hell did someone only take 1 HP damage?

...I'm pretty damn sure that's outright impossible even if you have only 1 PA, unless you have Worst Compat, Defense UP, Protect and at least one of the units has under 65 Fury.  9*.66=5*.66=3*.75=2*.95-=1.

Soerm, how the fuck?  @_@

FFMaster

I honestly have no idea. Never even seen this bug before, guess I'll mess around a bit with Mimes.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢



RavenOfRazgriz

September 11, 2011, 05:40:09 pm #764 Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 11:29:45 pm by RavenOfRazgriz

YOU CAN'T HURT ME.

Wow, seriously.  Unless you're running a team like one of the ones Mando has that's (intentionally or otherwise) built to beat basically everything I can dish out hard, you seem to get wiped.  Then again, so far it's been two Element-based teams, and I wipe Element teams like they're jokes due to Unyielding 40 Faith H Bags.  Then again, he had plenty off off-element damage, including those 444 damage Demi to rape my Dancers and Charm-hazing Thief, so the H Bag factor wasn't as big as it was vs. Eternal's Tri-Attack team.  Still, just, wow.

GG Vigilanti.

The Damned

(Fuck. I still need to do that post in the map thread. Ugh. I could technically start to do it now or later today, but I have other things I need to do. I'll try to do it tomorrow. [/broken promises])

Thanks again, Barren, especially for informing me of the obvious problem with Raijin. I'll fix that in my team post when I change it next. I kinda still want to make another team or two just to have an even twelve, but that can wait.

Regardless, yeah, as I said on Youtube, I rather agree that Salty Rage doesn't really seem worth building around still, if only because the AI still reads Berserk as a negative status and thus you can't ever use anything that cures Berserk or else your other units will pull a Fighter and "help" the Salty Raged unit to calm the hell down. I do have an idea about how to use it, but it involves using Chemists. Sigh.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on September 11, 2011, 05:40:09 pm

YOU CAN'T HURT ME.

Wow, seriously.  Unless you're running a team like one of the ones Mando has that's (intentionally or otherwise) built to beat basically everything I can dish out hard, you seem to get wiped.  Then again, so far it's been two Element-based teams, and I wipe Element teams like they're jokes due to Unyielding 40 Faith H Bags.  Then again, he had plenty off off-element damage, including those 444 damage Demi to rape my Dancers and Charm-hazing Thief, so the H Bag factor wasn't as big as it was vs. Eternal's Tri-Attack team.  Still, just, wow.

GG Vigilanti.



I think it's less a problem of being unable to hurt you, tanky-ass Chemists aside, and the fact that pretty much no one is protecting themselves against Nameless Dance despite the fact that the great restriction of status protection makes it OP now, arguably almost broken.

I mean, a source of Stop that hits the entire map, that can't be reflected, that can't be dodged, that can't be countered and that has a greater chance of hitting than the Stop spell itself--it's like FFVII's Freeze spell all over again--for a sixth of the cost? Yes please.

That it also causes Silence when mages pretty much have to wear Magic Ring or spend 850 JP on Equip Armor just to protect against it (while losing out on a good deal of MP & Short Charge or Magic Attack UP or a more useful Support) if they want to be useful is just icing on the cake, especially since Echo Grass doesn't even exist.

I'm not going to say that I have a team that's capable of beating you, but I'd be tempted to see how a team that can get around Stop, like my Hirosu team, would do. You'd probably still win, but at least my units would get to do something (getting hit by all instances of Don't Act due to my shitty luck aside).
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Vigilanti

GG To you to Raven, I never expected to be dominated by your tanky chemists >_<

I thought I had a chance with a Demi 2 but unfortunately that silence on my priest and stop onto my time mage is what made my heart sank

But overall, it was fun facing you when I did, gotta come up with a new team soon.

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: The Damned on September 12, 2011, 04:19:01 amI mean, a source of Stop that hits the entire map, that can't be reflected, that can't be dodged, that can't be countered and that has a greater chance of hitting than the Stop spell itself--it's like FFVII's Freeze spell all over again--for a sixth of the cost? Yes please.

That it also causes Silence when mages pretty much have to wear Magic Ring or spend 850 JP on Equip Armor just to protect against it (while losing out on a good deal of MP & Short Charge or Magic Attack UP or a more useful Support) if they want to be useful is just icing on the cake, especially since Echo Grass doesn't even exist.


It's less the hit percent (though that makes it far better), and more that the tanky Chemists can enforce the law of inevitability.  There were a lot of Nameless Dances there that didn't anyone, or only hit a single unit with Darkness status, etc.  Like Barren said in his videos - unless you're immune, it's going to happen, and once it does I'm just going to push because this team is technically very aggro, if only through Blackmail and Death Sentence combos.

As for Echo Grass being MIA, that hurts me a lot more than it hurts anyone else, and my Auto Potion is still MIA too.  I think I could even beat Mando's team with a decent consistency once Auto Potion and Echo Grass are fixed and something is done with the Brokenji Armor, and he's probably the closest team to a hard-counter there is.  (As it stands, he obliterates me almost every time through double Battle Song, high base damage, no element usage, and immunity or irrelevance to everything I do but Stop and Poison combined with the ability to fire off Silences of his own on my Chemists, but Auto Potion and Echo Grass are the great equalizers, so to speak.  If all else fails, I may need to find a way to force Mimic Daravon onto my Chemists to deal with him, though... either that, or actually optimize to something else instead of Chemists that I can make both tankier and have a wider status pool, but I like my tanky Chemists.)

Quote from: The Damned on September 12, 2011, 04:19:01 amI'm not going to say that I have a team that's capable of beating you, but I'd be tempted to see how a team that can get around Stop, like my Hirosu team, would do. You'd probably still win, but at least my units would get to do something (getting hit by all instances of Don't Act due to my shitty luck aside).


*waits for Barren to consider this a challenge.

Quote from: Vigilanti on September 12, 2011, 07:20:23 am
GG To you to Raven, I never expected to be dominated by your tanky chemists >_<

I thought I had a chance with a Demi 2 but unfortunately that silence on my priest and stop onto my time mage is what made my heart sank

But overall, it was fun facing you when I did, gotta come up with a new team soon.


I'll admit, that 444 damage Demi 2 made me shit a brick, especially when I saw my clumped starting formation the second match.  I was almost expecting that to be a 2 minute wipe into a game 3 because I got ruined by an early Demi 2, I'll be honest.  My Chemistsdid their job of keeping your units as far away from the Dancers as possible so it never got to play a factor though, thankfully for me.  Your Monk didn't seem to know Revive, which might've at least given you a chance for a comeback.  Dunno though, since he was starting to get worn down to shit by Polka Polka along with your Thief and my Dancers aren't afraid to start hazing your Speed instead.  Them Demi 2s, though... scary things those are, I hadn't accounted for the fact my Dancers could be oneshot by it with my move over to P Bag... this may require addressing when I update my team, because that's honestly kind of scary if it gets to play a factor too early in the match.

Malroth

There needs to be a Robe with Immune: Silence and Berserk possibly coupled with an elemental weakness for balance purposes,  the exclusivity of ribbions and restriction of status immunities to heavy armour is crippling to casters ATM

The Damned

(I'll get to maps! I swear! Again....)

Yeah, there probably needs to be a Robe or, at least, another accessory that Blocks: Silence.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on September 12, 2011, 07:56:06 am
It's less the hit percent (though that makes it far better), and more that the tanky Chemists can enforce the law of inevitability.  There were a lot of Nameless Dances there that didn't anyone, or only hit a single unit with Darkness status, etc.  Like Barren said in his videos - unless you're immune, it's going to happen, and once it does I'm just going to push because this team is technically very aggro, if only through Blackmail and Death Sentence combos.


The inevitability is more what I mean, especially given that it's not like Nameless Dance ONLY causes Stop or then it would undeniably broken.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on September 12, 2011, 07:56:06 amAs for Echo Grass being MIA, that hurts me a lot more than it hurts anyone else, and my Auto Potion is still MIA too.


Hmm..., that's true, I suppose. Not that I was saying that Echo Grass being gone doesn't hurt you; I was only saying that it makes Silence all the more painful considering there's now only one thing that mages can equip innately to guard against it and only two mages per team can equip it.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on September 12, 2011, 07:56:06 amI think I could even beat Mando's team with a decent consistency once Auto Potion and Echo Grass are fixed and something is done with the Brokenji Armor, and he's probably the closest team to a hard-counter there is.


Perhaps. I rather like that such a passive team is managing to destroy people without spamming something I think is obviously broken like Quickening--although that too needed to be shown, so....

I chuckled mentally a bit since I had to look up Genji Armor to see what you were talking about. Oddly, despite how good it seems now, I honestly haven't thought about using it once. I guess I just like preventing stuff more.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on September 12, 2011, 07:56:06 am*waits for Barren to consider this a challenge.


*waits to get ass kicked like whenever he fights CT5Holy*
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"


RavenOfRazgriz

(Note to self: Edit with commentary vs other shit tomorrow when I actually can watch them.)

Firstly, this demonstrates what I said before about Echo Grass' not existing hurting me more than anyone else.  100% Silence Katana forces me immediately into Plan B because I can no longer Death Sentence, whereas if I had Echo Grass I could've easily pushed both games with only minor setbacks from said Samurai as Blackmails and Death Sentences ruined him.    (This is why my Chemists weren't using Death Sentence both battles, both Chemists were Silenced both games more or less entirely and Arena 1.3032 doesn't have Echo Grass by err.   When I have Echo Grass and Auto Potion, just, ^_^)

Secondly, I'm going to argue I won both.  Why?  In a situation where there's a "draw" and neither team can push, I win through the law of inevitability.  Why?  I have Polka Polka and Slow Dance.  If you allow the matches to play out to their entirety, inevitability means I *WILL* get the enemy to 1 PA and 1 SP, *WILL* land Stops, and *WILL* kill things with with bag smacks considering my turns are resolving 9 or more to 1 and Nameless Dance is hazing to let that gap be even greater.  That's by intent - I'm *designed* to be able to win any game that would be a "draw" for any other team.  Even if you can block everything I do, if you can't kill anything, I *WILL* eventually win.  I went out of my way to make it so because I hate to lose.  If a team can still prevent me from winning while taking 1 turn to every 9 of mine with only 1 PA while being actually good vs anything else, I'd like to see them.

Still, GGz Damned.  That Silence-inflicting Katana is stupid as hell when you can't actually heal Silence.

Barren

Well considering Raven that yes the echo grass not being in the spreadsheet hampers your team a little bit and yea The Damned's team cant kill your chemists regardless. Unless The Damned can counter argue then I guess you make a solid case that you had the upper hand most of the time so I guess I can declare you the winner
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

The Damned

(*is currently still watching the videos*)

I actually have a strong counter-argument: You used the older version of my team, which affects things rather greatly, Barren. Nemeshisu shouldn't have Hidden Knifes at all (because Transparent interferes with Witch Hunt, as you can see), Hiro doesn't have Balance anymore and Bieffueffu Ando & Furain Man actually have reactions that work, among other things.

So...yeah. Please do that over again if you don't mind, unless it runs as long. I still doubt that I'll be able to beat Raven, but I want to lose with a version of my team that actually works.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: The Damned on September 14, 2011, 09:23:18 pmI still doubt that I'll be able to beat Raven, but I want to lose with a version of my team that actually works.


It'll probably still run long because Bizen Boat's silly when Echo Grass doesn't exist, and I think the only difference from your posted team and the one in the video that'll even come close to mattering is your Samurai having Demi 2 to kill my Dancers with since those Stops are pretty much never going to hit.

I'm not opposed to a rematch though if you want it since that team's been updated for at least 10 days now and really had no reason to not be correct, but I don't think it'll change the outcome at all unless Barren skews things horribly by picking Maps like the Wooden Shed 3 times in a row on purpose (lol) and your Samurai gets double-killing Demi 2s.  I was just pointing out that I have my team made to intentionally handle and win matches like ours where nothing else gives, because I'm aware of the raw defense I can muster even if my primary strategy is to end the game as soon as Death Sentence will allow.  :p

Barren

  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

RavenOfRazgriz

September 15, 2011, 10:34:24 am #776 Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 10:41:08 am by RavenOfRazgriz
Barren, I think you deserve a written apology for having to record that again.  You can see what I mean about Slow Dances though even through just the ~10 hits it landed in the time you recorded - every time it hit something, any footholds Hirosu had gained began to slip, and by 30 minutes I basically had full control through Poison and stat hazing, even if I wouldn't have properly "won" until I hazed them all down to 1 Speed or so.

Really need that Echo Grass, though.  Goddamn.  Honestly, I'm tempted to just drop Nameless Dance off my Dancers entirely at this point, I'm starting to get really convinced I have 0 need for it based on this, considering what I'd do if I did drop it.

Barren

September 15, 2011, 11:45:49 am #777 Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 11:47:34 am by Barren
Don't worry about it Raven, I was already thinking that you won mostly due to the fact that there's reliable sandbag power on your team and the Damned's team didn't follow up on the Demi 2 kill (which to me is your only weakness) so far. Plus if I let it go longer than I let it you would have eventually ware down Damned's team to the point where they would have 1 PA and 1 SPD then you would have lol'd them with bag smacks

But yea, I do agree with you in that if echo grass was in the spread sheet(which by conspicuous means its not) then you would have ended it quicker than normal IMO

But I do appreciate the thought of it though because I just woke up and did that rematch...lol but really man its okay...we can already agree that your team is frightening and can beat a lot of other teams
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

The Damned

(I just realized one of the teams I wanted to make is technically impossible because Stone Gun should cancel Salty Rage's now initial status. Profound sadness.)

Yeah, you definitely deserve a written apology for that, Barren. Especially since I could have made it so my team won even despite Daphne/Nemeshisu's utter stupidity if I hadn't given Nathan the gun. Given that Echo Grass does hurt Raven a hell of a lot more than me, he would have probably been able to Battle Sing enough the point where I could actually start to hurt Raven's units, especially since I don't think I ever got a critical in that match as opposed to the worse team match.

I agree that Raven won both sets, but I expected him too anyway, especially since most of teams aren't really damage-oriented teams--I was more trying to see how much of a difference him being able Stop units with Nameless Dance did, which was not much. Just like their live action counterparts, Team Hirosu is a bunch of losers.

Echo Grass needs to be fixed, regardless, and Nameless Dance arguably still needs to lose its ability to Stop, especially if 70 Faith Stop on 40 Faith units (optimal or not) is that abysmal that it's 37%.

Thanks again, though. No need to push yourself so much posting videos. You'll burn yourself out. Take a break please.

I'm trying to clean my computer still--I'll explain in the Embargo thread why that's taking so damn long--and I hope that maybe when I have it cleaned, it actually run things and I can maybe help out with recording (even if I've never done that before and wouldn't have vocal commentary).

*goes off to work on Embargo*
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

September 16, 2011, 04:48:01 am #779 Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 04:49:00 am by RavenOfRazgriz
Quote from: The Damned on September 16, 2011, 12:46:45 amEcho Grass needs to be fixed, regardless, and Nameless Dance arguably still needs to lose its ability to Stop, especially if 70 Faith Stop on 40 Faith units (optimal or not) is that abysmal that it's 37%.


They've also got Unyielding going, so I'm sure that's also ruining your chance to hit, as well as the Shell on my Dancers.  It's still funny you say that though, because I just beefed up Y U SO DERP to deal with the missing Echo Grass and a few other things, and ended up dropping Nameless Dance entirely, as well as covering that whole Demi 2 issue.