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[Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)

Started by Dome, December 05, 2010, 02:02:09 pm

Which one is the best, and why?

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ffzman

Yeah it's what he was planning to do, so I just assumed it's possible.

Mando

Quote from: "Lucifer_zero"I´ve loved some of Mando´s ideas, but hate some too.

Instead of Red Mage why not make a new color Mage ? Cuz for for most of people Red Mage is some mixture of White and Black ( yeah... ) and that wont make soo much sense on FFT, even with other elementals.

What i think of this is some... "Purple" (or another color ) mage with the elementals that Black don´t hav like QUAKE, TORNADO, DEMIs and BIO. ( ohh, and slow, quick, FROG )

I think that the Dark and Holy Knight must remain special classes ( unless u talking about PSP Dark Knight ), Bard and Dancer are good suport classes IMHO, turning Rafa and Malak into Bard and Dancer would ruin the Unique Classes they hav, but like i said, it my opinion.

And about Rafa and Malak, i´ve thought on this: why don´t make they more Ying-Yang ? Like, Rafa beign all skills MA-Faith based, with the best MA and MP growth ( at price of HP and PA ) and Malak  hav all his untruth skill PA-BRAVE based, with best PA and HP growth ( at price of MP and MA ).

Quote from: "Mando"Orlandu should be the only person to use LIGHTNING STAB- makes his thunder god title count for something....

That would be great, and also make Holy Explosion only for Agrias !!!


For the red mage thing... since I do have on mine using all elmental spells + some magic debuffs + buff  it could be Elementalist (ffta stolen name) and just ask someone to make a sprite.

The reason I have a beef with bard and dancer is the fact that they diverge from each other. If I want a class to buff I want it to de-buff as well. In which case I also don't care much for a chance of a chance to be hit with an effect I want and vice versa for the debuff. Now in Chat I actually brought up the "Cook" idea which took off like a storm and I think Celdia is actually wanting to make that class. It has some great thought behind it from xif, cel, myself, and a few others in chat. Admittedly it was kind of a joke at first but essentially it would be a buff/debuff class. Which this game someone lacks as a dedicated class all others are hybrid buff + damage (or heals for preists) or de-buff + damage.

Which brings me to rafa and malak. It seems to me they either will be OP as hell or gimp as hell. That is why i suggested if you want to keep bard/ dancer in the game give them those skills remove their old skills to make way for new skills for classes.

Ya I think many people agree with the Orlandu idea. Also the reason I say add a balanced holy/dark knight class is this. You get Agrias anyways. However not everyone wants to use her as the sole holy knight. But hell the game practically forces you too which means you put in more f'n time building her up and you just wasted time with another unit you had previously. Not to mention you have to look at the same sprite no matter what class she is. This applies to all "special" unit classes.

Also imagine if this all becomes balanced enough it will make for some really interesting AI fights because people love them sword skills even if they do get the nerf hammer.

Same goes with Orlandu. However in my patch I made him use my ff7 cid sprite and have lances. He also summons Highwind that uses All-Ultima animation. It kills him hitting all unit in that radius regardless of enemy or allies lol.

I don't care much for mediator though. Its essentially advanced thief. Get a unit to join you. Rob them! Give them the boot... otherwise all their skills fit into the context of another class like black mage de-buffs.

So I mean if you wanted to add a red mage like class and yet keep time mage mediator is the man to go! Followed by Geomancer (if you do the generic class ASM)

Also I think FFM was working on some editing for Lancer which would be cool. Although I'd love to see Dragoon get some skills like in FFTA the breath attacks.

Oh ya and a side note if Dark was made into a class I would say make it like FFTA Fighter class where they have moves that damage the target and themselves. FFXI dark knight had the same concept except they used scythes and greatswords. (move called soul eater enhanced their physical attack but caused them to lose 1/3 in hp relative to damage they dealt to the target)

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StarScythe

I could see maybe archer getting revamped, but will most likely oppose a complete overhaul of any other class.

We should change things cause they need to be changed, not just cause we can do something different. The point I'm trying to make is that this patch has always been about balancing, and adding challenge to, the original game, and sticking with that it should be as close to the original as we can get it while still fulfilling those goals.

Changing things cause "I think black mages should be more like this cause of such and such RP reason" or "lets just spread this classes abilities to some other classes so we can make way for this other really class idea" dont really help the balance of the game at all, in fact they are more likely to cause imbalance later on, cause they will be introducing elements that havent been accounted for.

Now changing something for BALANCE reasons, such as elements not having as much an effect as before with the removal of a lot of the monster weaknesses warrants a change, but that change should be as minimalistic as possible, say adding spells to their list that force weaknesses, similar to oil. Simple, doesn't significantly alter the class, sticks with its theme, and most importantly, gives BALANCE.

dont get me wrong, I LOVE some of the ideas Ive heard (read i guess) here, but its just not 1.3. It was said in the OP that 1.4 ought to be a starting point for future patches. A lot of these suggestions are things that belong in future patches.

As for balancing the archer class, why not just convert the charge skills into spells? Give the spells the relative speed of the original charge abilities, have them use the WP like sword skills do, and then have them use the weapon animation. Boom! We've now got practically the same abilities that archer did before, but now they can be affected by short charge for late game, and can be mixed with a few custom skills so archers arent a one trick pony. Say something like VOLLEY: Random hits in an aoe, AIM: normal attack ignores evasion, PIN: Attack adds dont move. This follows the same theme as archers in vanilla, but improves it in such a way that it is balanced, good early game, and good late game too.

Lucifer_zero

Quote from: "Mando"For the red mage thing... since I do have on mine using all elmental spells + some magic debuffs + buff  it could be Elementalist (ffta stolen name) and just ask someone to make a sprite.

I´ve throught the same thing, but i do like more another Color Mage idea hahaha and the skills that i trhought on then are ( the new ones, the rest ( QUAKE, TORNADO, BIO, etc.. ) is the same:
Heal Rain - RNG 0 AOE 2, cure Status and some HP
Acid Rain - RNG 4 AOE 1, Water-based with poison chance
[ Yeah... i´m a Tactic Ogre fan...]
Earth Slash - Yes... the MONK skill, take it from them and put here [ make one similar non-elemental for them, like... Ogre Run ]
WindStorm - RNG 3 AOE 2, Wind Based with silence chance ( Siren hahahaha )


IMHO if we had a class dedicated to buff/debuff like u said i fear that it could turn into a kinda broken class, cuz then u could hav a single unit who could buff/debuff AND Heal or Damage, just see what happens at the Tournament, Time Mage + Talk Skill can reaaaally be annoying, imagine they with Esuna and raise ? Now on a Normal play, having 2 unit that are dedicaded to buff/debuff with heal would be reaally nice, leaving more space for the other 3 units.


But i liked the idea of the Dark Knight idea ( Cecil FF4, skill at cost of Health ), if i would change Bard and Dancer i would put this one Dark Knight for male, and a Sacred Knight for female ( Still think that Holy Knight NEED to be unique ), they skill set would be only of skills that cost no MP or little MP and a % of current HP, for Dark skills that only target enimies, and for Sacred skills that only target Allies, the skills that i trhought are ( no names for now, all they don´t target caster, except last one )
15% HP- Rng 3 AOE 2 little Damage enemies / little Heal allies
20% HP- rng 0 AOE 2 little MP damage enemies / little MP heal allies
35% HP- Low~Medium % chance of give dark OR poison OR dont act OR dont Move / medium~high % chance of clearing the same status ( this one is a skills that affect BODY )
40% HP- Low % chance of give Confuse OR Sleep OR Charm OR stop / Medium % chance of clearing the same status ( MIND affecting Skill )
90% HP- (RNG < AOE-1) Debuff everyone on range and medium % of  Death Sentence / Remove Debuffs on everyone on Range and medium % chance of Reraise ( the ultimate CURSE / BLESS SKILL )

The High HP cost is to prevent spam, or u need someone else healing the unit spaming these skills.

Special Character are mean to be a little more OP, IMHO, Agrias is one of them, meaning she is to be unique, having more not only would ruin her, but the class too, if u hav an class with sword skills then ALL would need to be so nerfed that they would end nearly usable ( remember, u always could use they, but the computer would use only now and then )


And do not underestimate Talk Skills they hav low % for one reason, Instant Cast + status, i use it more than oracle, to be honest i almost NEVER use oracle ( mimic daravon for the win !!! )

Surprisingly for some, a special character that i always use is Mustadio, Snipe + Battle Skill make him some good use, i really wanted to hav more snipe than Sword Skill ( LOL )


Another ideas that i had

- is there any way to make a new reaction ? if there, i was thinkin on Behemot again, give them a reaction that counter all type of attacks with single target meteorian.

- Thief hav an attack that ignore reaction, also ninja hav one like this too

- if the idea of "hav all char on random battle hav imortal + maintance" is aproved, then on chapt 4 all places could hav 4 types of random battle: 2 normals ones, 1 hard and 1 very hard, the Hard one comes with a guest that is a human character that joins after battle, on each location hav a different class, all they with mime unlocked ( for less grind purpose )

- Instead of making Holy Knigth a common class, i think that  Divine Knight would be more a challenge ( instant break ARE powerfull )

- if only Ourlando hav Lighting Stab, maybe make it ADD don´t Move + Don´t act, Stun purpose...

- can potion and ether formulas hav a PA+MA formula ? I saying it cuz on latter lvls X-potion dont help much ( i was thinking of something like POTION = 10*(3+[PA+MA]/20]), H. POTION = 10*(7 + [MA+PA]/10), X-POTION = 10*(15 + [MA+PA] / 7) ) or X-POTION and HIGH ETHER hav a % heal    [ i know that itens are itens and should not be influenced by the person using... but healing 150 while enemies do 250~400 dont help much ]



sad that i only can help with ideas and opinions -_-


Quote from: "Mando"Same goes with Orlandu. However in my patch I made him use my ff7 cid sprite and have lances. He also summons Highwind that uses All-Ultima animation. It kills him hitting all unit in that radius regardless of enemy or allies lol.

WOW i want to see HIGHWIND haahahahahaha ( "Hey Highwind, come and beat that F$#@%#&* UP !!!!... WAIT DONT HIT ME YOU M0*%@-F&$*#@ !!!")
My english sucks... and i know this.

Currently playing:
- FFT +, by Dome
- CCP, by Celdia

StarScythe

Proposed Archer Change

Change all "charge" skills to abilities that use the PA*(WP+Y) formula of sword skills.
CT for abilities stay the same, but can now be affected by short charge.
Y is equivalent to the "number of the charge"
(These charge abilities will do slightly more damage due to speed no longer being a factor, as well as Attack up having a greater effect for the same reason, but these also help to keep the class alive later in the game)
Add the following skills:
VOLLEY: 4 random hits in 1 aoe, 3 vert tolerance [requires bow]
Aim: Normal attack ignores evasion [requires bow]
Hail Mary: reduced chance of hitting, vastly increased range [requires bow]

The archer is now ranged damage king, both early and late game, but I dont think this setup would be OP, and if need be the bow WP could be adjusted.

Lucifer_zero

@StarScythe

You got the point in your post before mine, but i think that even though the central idea is the balance of game, new ideias, new class and more are welcome, not that they will be used, but all ideas are valid, maybe altarnate pacthes or another hacks ^^, anyways, i liked the changes of Archer u suggest, but isn´t better hav one skill that hit area and another that hit more than once  ? And instead of accurance, Hail Mary should be less damage ( CONCENTRATE )
My english sucks... and i know this.

Currently playing:
- FFT +, by Dome
- CCP, by Celdia

FFMaster

@StarScythe

It would be tricky to balance those charge abilities with Katanas. Those weapons have brave in the formula, and if we left them as they are, then the damage would become at minimum 30% higher since using that ability would be a way to get around the Brave restriction. It would be messy to balance, if not impossible.

I honestly hate the abilities which are restricted to a certain weapon. All it is doing is restricting them to only be an Archer if they want to use those skills.
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Kourama

Quote from: "FFMaster"A few odd things on necromancer. It sounds like it should be a mage, yet some of the formulae which must be used aren't suitable for them at all.

For example, Drain Life I will assume to be like the old Oracle spell. This one was removed due to being able to 999 enemy units with ??? with no way to stop it. Removed for good reason.

Manipulate can only be done with the Hit_(Sp+X)% formula, which wouldn't fit a mage at all.

As for Ranger, it's pretty much Mustadio with another charm spamming ability. Musty is already unused outside of double break gimmick. However, Charge sucks balls, so I'm not too sure what to do for it. I also don't like when more than 1 class has the same ability.

- Instead of Drain Life you can just make a new attack. I made a move for a unique character that used the blood suck animation, absorbed some hp from enemy and removed positive status effects, but you had to be right next to the enemy. I think this would work.

- For Manipulate I can't really disagree with you on what to do with the formula. All I did was increase "X" in the formula to make it more accessible to a "mage" unit.

- As for Ranger/Mustadio, I removed all of Mustadio's original moves and gave him all the break skills as well as one extra ability called "Heaven's Gift" that did a random positive effect on ally, 100% of the time based on weapon range. So basically Mustadio and Ranger had totally different moves.

Edit:
Quote from: "Dome the Spam Mod"29) Maybe we should make undeads able to come back to life 100% of the times, making every human job/monster that doesn't has it as an innate immune to it...

I tried this before and I just want to let you know that it does work but the numbers above a "dead" undead monster don't mean a thing. They can come back to live with 3 above them or stay with 0 above them for 4 turns and then come back to life. It was pretty interesting to use.

Mando

FFM and I were talking yesterday when I asked about adding lancer breath skills... cause I mean jump is cool- but thats all they have for the requirements to unlock lancer >.>
Kind of makes it lack luster.

However, he brought up the whole generic asm thing : mentioning jump could be innate for lancer but that kind of F's up when jump is used as secondary skill (I dont see that part too often though)


When the whole time mage / talk skill was mentioned its only annoying because no one uses finger gaurd. Making a class that uses magical debuffs is owned by reflect mail. You cannot compare the two.

Do not forget talk can be spammed where mp is limited (well not towards end game but in a tourney it is.)

Finally a new class doesn't mean the game will become "unbalanced" because unbalancing will occur due to perceptions of something being better than another   -i.e all those original fire absorbing teams in the 1.3 tournament and ninja / thief units.

Which brings me to this- remove fire/ice shield or add one for each element. If your going to balance each element must be absorbed / halved just as much as any other. Otherwise people will stick to 1 thing due to its strength and not preferences.

^ New FFAT website made by St4r!

Dome

Please guys, could you post your suggestion with less text, or at least make a bolded TL;DR version at the end of each post?
This wall of text is giving me Headache...

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Mando

For you Dome.
[attachment=0:av0v8cs4]textwall.jpg[/attachment:av0v8cs4]

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Chrona

Personal thoughts on everything in the first post

1 - I fully agree with the new job with axes that Ryudo posted. I pretty much never used axes before, and this would be pretty interesting. The idea of a Berserker class with options is something I'd really like to see.

2 - I guess this is fine, though I'd also add that all guests join at party level if they do not do so already. If you do grind up to level 99 before recruiting Mustadio (not sure why you would want to...) it shouldn't make him useless. Then again this is mostly because of what a pain it was to train Cloud in the main game, I know that particular issue has been fixed

3 - This is so perfect. People who like high numbers shouldn't be punished for getting a few levelups, so forcing equips would keep it balanced. I support this 100%

4 - Hm...not sure what I think of this...I actually do like the idea of getting stronger equipment from randoms (to an extent, they shouldn't have DD things until late ch4 xD), and if you do cap them it would make tons of late-game random battles too easy. Unless you can somehow change their equips from chapter to chapter? Not sure if that's possible via ASM. Still, fighting someone with a Broadsword on Mandalia in Chapter 4 is rather discouraging.

5 - Fine by me, I do like the idea of refacing old enemies. Algus should have his Dark Knight class one way or another, from WotL if you do this. Are you able to add new battles to the game in vanilla FFT? I'm curious if the WotL only battles are possible where they are

6 - Agreed, he's just a random Chocobo as is. He needs something special to set him apart

7 - I guess this is fine. I'd suggest lowering Mime growths slightly to make every class somewhat viable to grow in

11 - I specifically second the thought that all monster types need some kind of weakness, makes using more elements viable. Chocobos weak to Bolt, for example.

15 - I do agree that Archer needs a rehaul. Specifically I'd *love* elemental arrow attacks to counteract the fact that more monsters would have more weaknesses. Would be like a less overpowered version of Sidewinder in FFTA. Secret Hunt would work better on them than on thieves too. Ninjas...well I don't really like the veil idea a lot, but Throw is rather boring...I'd prefer some kind of Assassin type skillset, but it would need a lot of balancing. Again Ryudo's ideas are pretty spot on with the mage rehaul and some other things, though I don't care for the dual-gun archer part of it. Rest of his post is fine.

16 - I *LOVE* this idea. 100%. I can see it being hard to use in Ch1 though, since you always have guests doing whatever the hell they want.

18 - I'd prefer all monsters getting some kind of weakness, though there should be some other tweaks to make other magic more viable to use on humans...not sure how though

19 - Either this or adding two items at 50/50 just to increase the amount of things you can get

20 - Agree 100% .

23 - I'd prefer some kind of AI boost, myself

24 - Didn't we just go over this in 15? Pretty much the same answer. Ryudo's mage rehaul and more hunter-like Archers with elemental arrow attacks would be perfect

26 - Agreed 100%. No more resetting when your Excalibur breaks, you'd just have to pay for a new one :D

28 - FUCK YES! NECROMANCER WITH DARK HOLY = LOVE <333333

Edit - As a tl;dr to Dome, I just edited out all the ones that I had no real preference about. Made my post slightly smaller
Silver Noble

Skip Sandwich

in regards to balancing a PA * [WP + Y] version of charge with other weapons, specifically katana, why not remove the lower level charge skills completely? This would make attempting to use them in melee much more difficult, even with short charge support.
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Dome

Lot of ideas running wild in this topic, glad I made this discussion start
I will ask a sub forum for 1.4 here in 1.3, where we can better organize our ideas/discuss them

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

philsov

request denied. It's waaaaaay too early for a 1.4 subforum.

While more organization is obviously needed, either spawn multiple topics in this forum itself or use the new project idea subforum for now.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Dome

Quote from: "philsov"request denied. It's waaaaaay too early for a 1.4 subforum.

While more organization is obviously needed, either spawn multiple topics in this forum itself or use the new project idea subforum for now.
>_>
Ok, I will do my best to organize ideas somehow

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Dome

Ok, since this topic is becoming WAY too chaotic, and we won't have a sub-forum support for the moment, we must discuss ideas in a better-organized way
FROM NOW ON, WE WILL DISCUSS 1 POINT OF THE LIST AT TIME
After an agreement is reached, I will edit the first post and we will start discuss the point after

Discussion will focus on point 1 for now
Quote1) Ramza sucks right now, he is a nerfed squire: He should get lower multipliers, higher growths (On par with mime), and a unique skillset focused on the fact that he is the leader of a small army (And his class name should be changed to something else...something like Cadet - Mercenary - Heavenly Knight, for example...THIS IS NOT A LOLSWORDSKILL PATCH, just Ramza's class name will change)
Quote from: "ryudo6850"1. Ramza topic- I changed his class to Leader he uses axes (new ones I added some are 1 handed lower dmg so you can shield and some are 2 handed with HIGH dmg)

My reasoning for giving him an axe is to make him a bit more unique. Giving him a sword only brings the temptation to give him a sword skill set. Some of the moves I have given him are.
Tomahawk ( a weaker ranged move essentially throwing his axe).
Explosion of Rage (looks like mimic titan does high MA dmg to people within a spinfist range has a charge time of 4)
Anger (raises PA by 2 Lowers MA by 3 ct time of 3)
Intellect (Raises MA by 2 lowers PA by 3 ct time of 3)
Reckless(Berserk + Regen -self target only)
Metatron Torment (Does intense amount of single Target PA damage ct time of 6)
-more skills can be added for  stat crippling or normal squire moves-
Post your thoughts about this one
P.s: If you have already posted your idea/s about this one, it would be helpful to copy-paste them, so we can better discuss/analize them
P.p.s: If you want to discuss other points, you are free to do so...but please, put your thoughts/suggestions/ideas about them between spoilers

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

philsov

QuotePost your thoughts about this one

Needs focus.  

Are you trying to make an improved 1.3 or are you trying to make something new?  Because Ramza as Conan the axe-wielding Barbarian is something new and left-fieldish.  Ramza's never equipped Axes from Vanilla to 1.3.  Tomahawk is improved Stone Throw, Explosion of Rage is nothing something I'd attribute to a leader type unit, anger and intellect aren't even possible atm, reckless is basically the same as Scream, only weaker, and Metatron Torment, despite my various Alan Rickman fantasies, isn't too fitting name-theme-wise is nothing else.  Ramza's oddly secular.

If you're going to focus on the leader aspect, give him improved talk skills, support-type abilities for other members, and one or two unique damaging abilities.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Dome

That's just an idea that was posted
My idea is still to make an improved FFT 1.3

I was thinking this about Ramza's class:

Quote- Multipliers and growths will be the same for each version of his class (Same growths of mime, nerf his multipliers)

- The names of his class will be: Cadet (Chapter 1) Mercenary (Chapter 2/3, but I'm not sure about this name) Heavenly knight (Or whatever the rank of his dead father his...Yeah, before asking it, slaying 2 Zodiac monsters is more than enough to deserve this title IMHO xD)

- By chapter 4, he should be able to wear everything (Or at least almost)

-Skillsets:
- Skillset chapter 1: Normal squire skillset (He is just a cadet after all), plus a special skill (That should be decided)
- Skillset chapter 2/3: 2 other special skills should be added (And squire-abilities should be removed)
- Skillset chapter 4: 2 other special skills should be added

- Some ideas for custom skills: (Nothing definitive, just ideas)
1 panel - 3 range instant skill that removes every negative status from an ally
An instant skill that heals every ally unit on the map for small amount of hp (Costs some mp)
An auto-buff spell that gives Ramza Protect - Shell - Haste (CT, costs some MP)
An high accuracy invite (30%)? that works only on "critical" enemies
1 panel - 3 range instant skill that 100% adds regen and defend to an ally unit
-More to come later-

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Aquilae

I agree with philsov, your plans are very vague. How do you want 1.3 to be improved? Is altering Ramza's base class necessary? For casual gamers, there is 1.3 Easytype. I don't see how making 1.3 easier is much of an improvement.

From what I see, Ramza does just fine as a Squire, and he is unique in his equipment options (as a Ch2-Ch4 Squire) and his above-average stats. I use Squire as a carrier class quite frequently because it can equip hats and armor and equip a different support. Improving Ramza's base class and its skills doesn't help balance the jobs out, because Ch2-Ch4 Squire is already very usable in comparison to other jobs.
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