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Final Fantasy Tactics: Redesign Main Discussion [Newest: HUGE GEAR EDITS!]

Started by RavenOfRazgriz, February 22, 2011, 10:03:22 am

RavenOfRazgriz

Introducing - Final Fantasy Tactics: Redesign.

What is this?  

This is my other, once secret, "serious" project that is being developed in parallel to the (in)famous Final Fantasy Tactics - Special Power Rangers Edition. In fact, these two projects will be sharing the same basic game engine for a number of reasons I won't get into here.  Originally, this post was never to come until a full, four-Chapter demo was ready to be released, but recent steps in Assembly knowledge combined with the aforementioned infamous project have all but assured this will be completed, so I have no problems with announcing this project relatively early.

(Don't think that because I call this "serious" that Power Rangers won't be amazing as fuck.  Ohhh, I have plans for that which will break almost everyone's expectations, I'm quite sure...)

What will this project feature?  What's so "Redesign"ed about it?

...Pretty much everything, honestly. I'll give a quick notation of each new mechanic below.  It should be noted that this patch seeks for a large amount of "fair" difficulty - it may be gruelingly hard sometimes, but this will be achieved with as few instances of the AI having special gifts as possible.  It also seeks for balance, removing as many exploits as possible and rebalancing all classes and the game's entire scaling and damage curve.

Fury and Will replace Brave and Faith - all skills are affected by one of the other, and how each works on a raw numerical level is at least slightly different than seen in Vanilla Final Fantasy Tactics.  This, combined with Zodiac Compatibility, throws the idea of super-consistent damage out the window, and forces the player to evaluate the worth of low Fury and Will vs high of either when choosing characters.

Attack will either be modded or A9 will be made innate all to give all units access to the Defend command as well as several basic levels of Charge, changing the dynamics of melee combat.

Reactions now all trigger 100% of the time - meaning of all the things one needs to weigh when choosing a Fury score, this is not one of them, placing the worth of a low or high Fury far closer to a low or high Will score.

Support Abilities are noticeably reworked - in that the Movement slot no longer exists.  Instead, the player will be able to equip two different Support Abilities at once, and all non-replaced Movement skills will become Support Abilities.  This means units will be able to equip Attack UP and Magic Attack UP, or Move +1 and Jump +2, and other combinations that were once impossible, drastically increasing the dynamics of character design.  In addition, many worthless Support and Ex-Movement Abilities are being replaced with new ones, further increasing the depth this change adds.

Stat Growth and Weapon Power has been essentially rebuilt.  For better or worse, this project uses a Flat Growth system, meaning the raw stats of two male Wizards of the same level will always be the same minus the mildly random base HP and MP.  However, equally obscene modifications to equipment will make this nearly unnoticeable during gameplay.  The damage growth itself has also been greatly distorted from what one would see in Vanilla Final Fantasy Tactics or even most mods of it.  Do not fear - it has been carefully crafted to be eased into.  Speed has also been reworked into a flat, tiered system, meaning that skills with a CT are rarely if ever "scaled out" solely due to their CT.  For those wondering, the Growths used will be 10, 10, 50, 50, 255 for HPC, MPC, PAC, MAC, and SPC.

CT, speaking of, will not be "gained" by not Moving or not Acting.  Your CT will now always reset to 0 at the end of the turn, placing the player and AI on more equal terms.

Movement has been changed up to include only small values - ranging from 2 to 5 depending on base class, equipped abilities, and gear.  This makes each turn's Movement more valuable, increasing the need for foreplanning during battle.

Equipment has been completely reworked from the ground up, including many new items, removal of once useless items (Flails, Books, Instruments, Cloths, Bags, Rods), and a generel rebalance of most item-related statistics.  Light use of ALMA will also occur.

Elements have been reworked to serve an entirely different function than the "hit the weak spot!" role the once held, and are now a somewhat deep but optional aspect of character design.  Mastery of Element usage will have noticeable rewards, however, though it is not without its weaknesses. There are now only 7 Elements (Holy, Dark, Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Wind - Water and Ice have in effect been merged for a decent number of reasons), and the modifiers relating to them have been noticeably changed. Element Boost is set at +25% damage, Element Half becomes Element Resist at -25% damage, and Element Weak is set to +25% damage.  These changes are mostly due to how Boost/Resist/Weak are spread around in the new Element system, since larger values (+/-50% to +/-100%) would cause huge disparities in damage from Element based skills that I don't want to be seeing.  Absorption is still present (Null not as much, in an odd bit of contrast), but equipment is designed so that only certain element combinations can be absorbed, meaning no skillset can be obviated entirely via Absorption setups.  Trading stacks of PA and MA for Elemental setups can actually be quite rewarding in this new system in spite of that, for reasons anyone whose seen AI Tournaments can attest to.  While not entirely related, Oil and Float now also only provide a +25% damage bonus for similar reasons.

Evasion application will be modified in order to better support smart battlefield positioning, as well as innate Weapon Guard.  Evasion tanking will still be possible with both the modified application and adjusted scores, but will take far more thought than "Mantle + Abandon lol" to execute effectively.  Evasion for Weapon, Shield, and Class now applies at 100% value from front, 50% value from either side, and 0% value from back, making getting behind a unit incredibly valuable.  Mantles, however, still apply their evasion on all sides.

Monsters will no longer be Poachable or Breedable - however, they will be able to carry full primary and secondary sets as well as Reactions and Supports.  They will also have heavily modified elemental affinities to match the new purpose of Elements and be greater in number overall.

Statuses will have their Cancel/Stack attributes severely modified, Oil will be fixed, Float may receive mechanical changes, and Innocent will hopefully be removed in favor of a different status altogether.

AI Manipulation via precise formula choices and skillset composition will occur, resulting in an AI that should be out for the player's blood and only make minimal "oh you retarded AI you" decisions.

Level Cap has been changed from 99 to 50 for a large number of gameplay and balance reasons, mainly involving the speed and damage curves this project tries to achieve.

Sprites will receive palette modifications to make the colors for each team more clearly defined, and will be outright changed as needed to better fit the cosmetics of this project.

Plot will receive some edits. Nothing that heavily modifies Ramza's main path throughout the game, but noteworthy edits to once-subtanceless battles or lingering plot threads will occur, and with some event editing magic, more subquests and post-game content will be added without any huge costs. What will those subquests be? Still have no idea whatsoever, but they'll be there.

And finally... Classes.  Most of these are heavily redesigned and rebalanced.  Even those that are similar to their Vanilla counterparts have been changed, either in terms of statistics, ranges, or success rates to better focus both them and their skill set into specific roles and place their quality closer to that of other classes.  Obviously, classes feasibly cannot be the exact same in terms of quality, and their actual roles can be greatly modified or distorted via Support and Equipment specing.  The main purpose of this re-tooling is to remove redundancy between classes. It's worth noting that every class will have between 7 and 10 skills with very rare exeption, and that many of the old hard-coded skillsets such as Item, Jump, and Geomancy will become Support commands in the same vein as Vanilla's Defend command. There are still a few empty class spaces to be filled, so feel free to suggest classes or at least class concepts, the only things to remember are that each class needs to be distinct as most of the ones currently presented are, that there will be no Male Only / Female Only Job, and that there's no intent to have any generic "gimmick" job like Necromancer... though those as unique units is another story. I'm using many glorious and faptastic assembly mods such as FDC's Formula Hack, ARH, and ALMA, so design restrictions on these classes are greatly laxed.  The Job Wheel itself is still in WIP state until all classes are filled.






"Doubleshot" refers to an added ability of some weapons:

Doubleshot:
""
01 Dmg_[Weapon]
Cannot Target Self, Normal Attack, Animate on Miss, Evadable, Counter Flood, Countergraspable.
Weapon Range, 0 MP, 0 CT.


All Weapon Damage Formulas contain an unnoted (CasFury+30)*(TarFury+30)/10000 component.




























Opening Notes
Note, this will be updated at a roughly 1-Status per day schedule until all Statuses are listed.  The order I place Statuses on the list will be in the order of relevance to the Jobs I've covered so far.

Defending
"Keep guard up, increasing evasion and warding off key hits."

Special Properties: All evasion is boosted 25%.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 0.

Cancels:
Confusion
Berserk
Charm
Sleep

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Treasure

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
Confusion
Berserk
Charm
Sleep
Immobilize
Paralyze

Blindness (Darkness)
"Eyes have become useless, rendering the unit half as accurate when battling."

Special Properties: Base accuracy becomes 50%. Overrides Concentrate, 100% Accurate Weapons, etc.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 0.

Cancels:
None.

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Treasure

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Oil
"Strange goop with special properties that repel positive status.  Highly flammable, its weight and gooeyness prevent Reacting."

Property: Fire Elemental Damage on afflicted unit is increased by 1.25x.  Status is dispelled upon Fire Elemental Damage.

Can React: No.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 0.

Cancels:
Charging
Defending
Performing
Float
Reraise
Transparent
Regen
Haste

Can't Stack on Top of:
Dead
Crystal
Airborne
Treasure

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
Transparent
Regen
Haste

Float
"Powerful enchantment that allows the user to float above ground and fly when moving as well as repel some negative status."

Property: Wind Elemental Damage on afflicted unit is increased by 1.25x.  Unit floats above obstacles and can fly while moving.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 25.

Cancels:
Undead
Confusion
Oil
Berserk
Slow
Charm
Sleep
Immobilize

Can't Stack on Top of:
Dead
Crystal
Airborne
Treasure
Reflect

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
Slow
Immobilize

Reraise
"Unit has a second wind to revive with if felled."

Special Properties: Revive on next turn with minimal HP if Dead.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 0.

Cancels:
None.

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Undead
Airborne
Treasure
Reflect

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Poison
"Corroding toxins in the carrier's blood stream that quickly destroy health."

Special Properties: Unit takes 1/8th MaxHP (capped at 999 *1/8) Damage at the end of each of their turns.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 0.

Cancels:
Regen

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Undead
Airborne
Treasure

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Regen
"Unit is blessed and regaining health over time."

Special Properties: Regain 1/8th health at the end of each turn.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 0.

Cancels:
Poison.

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Undead
Airborne
Treasure
Reflect

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Protect
"Unit is surrounded by a barrier that dampens physical attacks."

Special Properties: Physical damage is reduced by 25%.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 50.

Cancels:
None.

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Undead
Treasure
Reflect

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Shell
"Unit is surrounded by a barrier that dampens magical attacks."

Special Properties: Magical damage is reduced by 25%.

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 50.

Cancels:
None.

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Undead
Treasure
Reflect

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Stop
"Unit is removed from current time-space."

Special Properties: Unit is temporarily removed from battle.

Can React: No.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: Yes.
Ignore Attacks: Yes.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 25.

Cancels:
None.

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Undead
Treasure
Float

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Will (Faith)
"Target has been filled with a unbending will, temporarily granting 100 Will."

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 30.

Cancels:
None

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Treasure
Reflect

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Fury (Replaces Innocent)
"Target has been filled with a righteous fury, temporarily granting 100 Fury."

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 30.

Cancels:
None

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Treasure
Reflect

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
None.

Immobilize (Don't Move)
"Target's legs have been crushed or otherwise immobilized, temporarily denying movement."

Can React: Yes.
Canceled by Immortal: No.
Freeze CT: No.
Ignore Attacks: No.
KO: No.
CT Timer: 35.

Cancels:
None

Can't Stack on Top of:
Crystal
Dead
Airborne
Defending
Treasure
Float
Immobilize

Can't Stack on Top of This Status:
Immobilize


I'm not sure when you can expect a demo on this.  Once FDC's Formula Hack is complete, assembling most of this project will be trivial outside of text and ENTD editing as most of the design-level work is already done, though finishing a playable version of the Power Rangers mod will likely come first.  Them sharing the same basic engine though will make finishing both projects easy once the basic ability and text changes are complete.

The Damned

About time you got on this. [/hypocrisy]

I guess this means that of the four people who already knew doing hacks that I was looking forward to between FDC, philsov, Eternal and you, I now know the basic gist of all them. That's good since it will enable me to not step on anyone's toes, though I haven't been planning to do such radical program-based overhauls at present anyway. (I may well "borrow" the non-Mage naming scheme, though, if only because "Dimensionalist" is a really awesome name.)

All of these changes look rather interesting, especially the Elements one and the Support one alongside the FFV treatment of "those" classes. The Reaction one worries me a bit, but I'm just that means that you're forced to remove more than just the obviously broken reactions and get rid of stuff like Damage Split, Dragon Spirit and HP Restore as well. (I mean, those triggering 100 of the time would be...obnoxious to say the least.)

Capping at Level 50 also seems like a decent enough idea.

Not sure how I feel about monsters not being poachable, though.

Regardless, I look forward to this as I always have. I've no idea for new jobs that would fit generics well at present. I'm noticing that you got rid of Mediator, though. I'm guessing you felt it was too weak?
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Cheetah

Very interesting project Raven, I look forward to how these different mechanics will work.
Current Projects:

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: The Damned on February 22, 2011, 01:55:18 pm
About time you got on this. [/hypocrisy]


I've been on this, I was just originally waiting until I had a 4 chapter demo to post.  With the Power Rangers mod using the same engine though, I basically guarantee enough of the work on this mod gets done that taking the next step to at least output a basic gameplay mod is easy, so I decided to just post since the fear of being unable to deliver some form of gameplay basically disapparated.

Quote from: The Damned on February 22, 2011, 01:55:18 pm(I may well "borrow" the non-Mage naming scheme, though, if only because "Dimensionalist" is a really awesome name.)


If you want it, use it.  I don't care if you step on my toes, I've already technically gifted a few of these ideas to other patches like ASM'd (monsters with full skillsets, for example) instead of selfishly keeping those discoveries to myself, so it's honestly not like I care if mechanics get shared.  FDC and I for example are likely sharing a lot of things in some areas, like Support Abilities and that entire change surrounding them... but everything else about our mods is so different it's basically irrelevant.

Quote from: The Damned on February 22, 2011, 01:55:18 pmThe Reaction one worries me a bit, but I'm just that means that you're forced to remove more than just the obviously broken reactions and get rid of stuff like Damage Split, Dragon Spirit and HP Restore as well.


Damage Split and HP Restore are currently enemy only.  Dragon Spirit is staying.  On one hand it can get annoying... but several classes can easily disassemble sandbagging, which is why all the proper revival skills will heal 25+% HP.  If you try to sandbag with paper units or with Phoenix Down / Reraise, it's easy just for someone to cast a Titan and ruin your day.  (I should have noted it, but the Summon command is casted instantly, so... yeah.  It's the perfect anti-sangbagging set most of the time.)

Quote from: The Damned on February 22, 2011, 01:55:18 pmNot sure how I feel about monsters not being poachable, though.


It's one third because the workaround for full skillsets requires it, one third because I want to eat Secret Hunt and make a new skill with it, and one third because Poaching has always been a soft-exploit - either not really worth the effort of doing, or an easy way of getting a couple rare Items and owning sections of Chapter 3 and sometimes early Chapter 4 without really even "grinding."  One of my big things was to remove expoits.  This AI is meant to be out to kill you and use your eviscerated organs to line its Ajoramas Tree and you're forced to mostly take the bull by the horns here.

Quote from: The Damned on February 22, 2011, 01:55:18 pmRegardless, I look forward to this as I always have. I've no idea for new jobs that would fit generics well at present. I'm noticing that you got rid of Mediator, though. I'm guessing you felt it was too weak?


I killed Mediator because when I was done designing, Squire and Mediator were both essentially low-mid end classes focused on buffing skills with a couple misc skills (Squire had Dash, Throw Stone, and something else, Mediator had Mimic Daravon and a couple piecemeal things.)  So I did the obvious thing, went "fuck it", threw the concepts at each other, merged them into what I thought would be the most attention-worthy class, and called it "Squire" because I felt it was more worthwhile as a starting class than one halfway down the Job Wheel.  I could've went with 1.3 Mediator, but that's stepping pretty hard on Oracle's territory, so I scrapped that idea too.  Part of the reason Bard was scrapped is similar to that - it was a buff class, I originally merged it with Mediator, and now that hellish hybrid got merged with Squire for a hydra job monster that somehow only has 7 skills yet is still awesome.  Dancer's out mostly because there are at least 3 other classes that focus on various kinds of debuffing as their primary feature in some distinct way, and cutting it let me remove the male/female Job schism that always made no sense to me.

Quote from: Cheetah on February 22, 2011, 02:05:10 pm
Very interesting project Raven, I look forward to how these different mechanics will work.


So do I.  I keep track of a lot of the numbers, so I'm not worried about damage stacks being broken... but there's a lot of cool new combos here I think people will be able to enjoy exploring and be rewarded for, like the one I mentioned on Ninja.  (Katanas are normally Two-Hands Only weapons with some of the highest WP in the game and powerful positive traits, but Monkeygrip lets it be held with one hand and they can technically be Two Sworded... but the only classes with Two Swords are Ninja and Thief, so yeah.  There's lots of cool combos like this built in if you look hard enough.)

Desocupado

Sounds pretty interesting.
Good luck with it.
  • Modding version: PSX

Lucifer_zero

February 22, 2011, 02:53:45 pm #5 Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 03:04:19 pm by Lucifer_zero
One more hack to expect for. ^^

Hey... why don´t you make one "red mage" class ( hahahaha, okay, baaaad bad joke ) ?


Now seriosly, liked the way jobs are, but still, only one thing i miss is one job that is gun user ( i mean, one focused on it ), on true, i think one that is specialized on fire power, like reworking shurikens and ball into something like bombs and grenade, and making skill that are with no reaction, WP-damage, and another that have long range, real long ( and make guns have less range )...

Edit, on true i was thinking of one long range class with no magical attack and something that ignore evasions, reactions and can have more range ( not only horizantal, but vertical to ) as for what you said about Archers, they should be weapon range, correct ?
My english sucks... and i know this.

Currently playing:
- FFT +, by Dome
- CCP, by Celdia

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: Lucifer_zero on February 22, 2011, 02:53:45 pmHey... why don´t you make one "red mage" class ( hahahaha, okay, baaaad bad joke ) ?


Yeah, answer's no there, but not for the reason you think.

Quote from: Lucifer_zero on February 22, 2011, 02:53:45 pmNow seriosly, liked the way jobs are, but still, only one thing i miss is one job that is gun user ( i mean, one focused on it ), on true, i think one that is specialized on fire power, like reworking shurikens and ball into something like bombs and grenade, and making skill that are 100% hit with no reaction, WP-damage, and another that have long range, real long ( and make guns have less range )...


A Gun user will probably be within the 3 new Jobs, since FFT really didn't have one either as a generic unit, though canonically there's a pretty good reason for that.  Guns I've already got almost entirely planned out, so I can easily design a class to make use of my various Guns.

Throw exists as a Support command, so there's no reason to rework Shuriken and Ball... plus that would mean this class would need more than one skillset for a primary to work correctly.  I can still make bombs though as long as I remove the ammo concept from them, Rangers use a bomb for several of their skills after all. 

I'll figure something out in regard to pewpewpew masters.

Quote from: Lucifer_zero on February 22, 2011, 02:53:45 pmEdit, on true i was thinking of one long range class with no magical attack and something that ignore evasions, reactions and can have more range ( not only horizantal, but vertical to ) as for what you said about Archers, they should be weapon range, correct ?


Most Archer skills are Weapon Ranged, yes.  I can make skills that ignore Evasion and Reactions entirely.  The Ranger already has one, actually.  Making a class like you'd want would be very tricky though, as the only thing that would work for what you said there is basically something akin to really long range Swordskills without the Requires Sword flag on... something I'm not really looking to do.  A lot of my skills are intentionally Weapon Range - if you want that range off the primary classes, the Marksman ability exists to allow you to use Bows, Crossbows, or Guns on any class, and they're all buffed enough to actually be worth doing that with due to low move making range actually worth a damn beyond the first two turns or so.

Lucifer_zero

Hum, okay, i´ve said about the Shuriken and ball cuz you didn´t mentioned about it, that makes me think that you did discarded throw.

And when i said about no reaction, evasion and range was diferent skills, one for each, not one that have the three.


Ps. thinking better, a generic unit that focus on gun don´t fit the FFT universe, as gun are news for most of Ivalice, lame on me for suggest one...
My english sucks... and i know this.

Currently playing:
- FFT +, by Dome
- CCP, by Celdia

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: Lucifer_zero on February 22, 2011, 03:29:17 pmHum, okay, i´ve said about the Shuriken and ball cuz you didn´t mentioned about it, that makes me think that you did discarded throw.


Nope.  The old Charge skillset will with all luck be built directly into the Attack command along with a Defend command and possibly one or two other basic actions.

Item, Geomancy, Jump, Throw, Draw Out will all be Support Abilities that allow you access to the proper skillset and give you a second soft bonus.  Tentatively those are 3 range Item toss, Boost: some Elements, Jump +1, Mod Item Range to Throw Range, and MA > PA on 01 attacks, respectively.

Sorry for the confusion there.

Quote from: Lucifer_zero on February 22, 2011, 02:53:45 pmAnd when i said about no reaction, evasion and range was diferent skills, one for each, not one that have the three.


Ah, okay.  Most skills here are somewhat powerful though, so something like No Reaction and No Evasion really does need to be combined to be worth it unless you make it also do full Weapon Damage.

Quote from: Lucifer_zero on February 22, 2011, 02:53:45 pmPs. thinking better, a generic unit that focus on gun don´t fit the FFT universe, as gun are news for most of Ivalice, lame on me for suggest one...


Yep.  That's part of why I was avoiding a hardcore Shooter class.  It's not like FFTA, these fuckers are literally digging Guns out of mountain cycles and hoping they eventually get deep enough to start digging out Mobile Suits.  And if anyone gets that joke in its entirety, I don't know what to say.

But yeah, it's likely at least one of the new classes will be able to use a Gun and possibly have some decent synergy with the various Guns I have planned, though the class likely won't be an actual Shooter class.

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Will you fix Unequipabble Support Ability Syndrome?  Our Chemists, Monks, Mediators, and Ninjas need your help, as do every other class you'll give inherent supports to, so they won't waste a support slot with an ability they already have.

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: Pickle Girl Fanboy on February 22, 2011, 04:14:23 pm
Will you fix Unequipabble Support Ability Syndrome?  Our Chemists, Monks, Mediators, and Ninjas need your help, as do every other class you'll give inherent supports to, so they won't waste a support slot with an ability they already have.


Well, Chemist sortof died in a tragic accident.  So did Mediators.

The others, if I can, sure.  It's not something I've looked into or asked around about yet though.


RavenOfRazgriz

February 22, 2011, 05:49:04 pm #12 Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 04:38:00 pm by RavenOfRazgriz
That'll help.

Thanks.  It's still rather low priority, but it's something I'll put on my to do list for this mod definitely since it does help keep the AI less dumb and makes things more cosmetically consistent.

The Damned

Speaking of AI stupidity, does your incorporating the Defend command into the Attack command "magically" make the AI not whore it like idiots? I ask because partly because that overuse has always been a problem (at least with regards to the CT). I also ask partly because it's pretty obvious that any pretty much every patch would benefit from intelligent use of options by AI, regardless of the overall design.

As for the poaching thing, I suppose I see your point and I certainly refute it given that I haven't focused on poachable stuff myself, though I've a general idea. I did forget about the whole "job wheel makes monsters immune to poach".

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on February 22, 2011, 03:40:21 pmYep.  That's part of why I was avoiding a hardcore Shooter class.  It's not like FFTA, these fuckers are literally digging Guns out of mountain cycles and hoping they eventually get deep enough to start digging out Mobile Suits.  And if anyone gets that joke in its entirety, I don't know what to say.


That they're horrible people who watch too much Gundam?

*probably does not get the joke because he doesn't watch Gundam*
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

February 22, 2011, 06:56:30 pm #14 Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 06:58:49 pm by RavenOfRazgriz
The Defend issue is solved by making CT always return to 0 at the end of your turn regardless of the actions over the course of your turn.  (Moving only, Acting only, Moving and Acting, and neither Moving nor Acting all now reset your CT to 0, meaning the AI cannot mismanage its CT.)

You're a horrible person who doesn't watch enough Gundam.

Either that or you saw Gundam SEED, in which case I support your fear but encourage you to try an older entry.  G Gundam is hilarious and any of the original timeline are good from a drama perspective, especially Zeta Gundam.  I'm specifically referencing an odd fact about the universe of Turn A Gundam.

The Damned

Oh, I thought as much given what I remember seeing you suggest about a week ago. I don't entirely agree with that, but I certainly see why you're using and it is rather superior to the current scheme of things when it comes to AI limitations.

Also, I never saw Gundam SEED or, at least, that much of it. What little I saw of it I didn't like. G Gundam is the only one I've seen a lot of besides that one with Deathscythe and that irksome bitch Relena Peacecraft or whatever; the former was a bit too campy but decent enough I guess and I rather enjoyed the latter outside of said character. I've been meaning to watch Turn A Gundam, but I've been meaning to watch a lot of things and I'm sidetracking the thread, so I'll shut up.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

I rather like it even without the AI problem, honestly.  It makes you decide whether you want to move somewhere because that place is the strategically best place to position your character, which can be pretty damn hard to do with lower Movement scores.  CT manipulation to me has always sortof felt like a means of cheating the system, get a slow character in place then suddenly he's one or two Speed Points faster because he's essentially camping, what?  You can argue that CT manipulation is a sometimes difficult strategy in itself and that removing leads to simplifying an aspect of the game... which it does.  But this is offset by a more equal footing against the AI and other changes that complexify other aspects of the game.

As for Gundam... let's leave it at SEED = SHIT.  ^_^

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on February 22, 2011, 06:56:30 pm
The Defend issue is solved by making CT always return to 0 at the end of your turn regardless of the actions over the course of your turn.  (Moving only, Acting only, Moving and Acting, and neither Moving nor Acting all now reset your CT to 0, meaning the AI cannot mismanage its CT.)


I like it, but I know I shouldn't, because removing functionality because SE can't write AI sucks balls.

RavenOfRazgriz

Haha, yeah.

But like I said above, I'm unsure of the concept to begin with, so I like this fix because it fixes the AI in a direct and simple way while also settling the problem of whether I want that concept to remain or not at the same time.

RavenOfRazgriz

Updated the opening post.  It contains a fully-fleshed breakdown of the current draft Squire class for everything except JP costs, adds the not Moving/not Acting doesn't grant bonus CT change to the ChangeLog, adds a basic overview of Weapons, and splits things up a bit better.