Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => Old Project Ideas => Topic started by: Dominic NY18 on February 14, 2009, 01:59:21 pm

Title: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 14, 2009, 01:59:21 pm
Part of the issue around these parts was that people were posting new threads about ideas for a patch without any actual work done. While ideas are certainly welcome, it's a bit rough wading through a lot of topics that are just ideas, but with nothing actually accomplished.

Instead of making a new thread whenever you have a new idea, post your ideas in here. Brainstorming, dreaming up, etc. Or comment on the ideas/proposals of others. Feel free to do that in here.

Hopefully, things won't get too hectic in here.

*goes off to handle more business*
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Post by: Archael on February 14, 2009, 02:02:51 pm
Idea: Merging of everything that is exclusive to the PSP ISO (script included I guess) back to the PSX ISO

If this is done we basically get a WOTL without slow-down. It'll become incredibly handy for every WOTL Player and will enable them to do anything they want (including challenges) on their WOTL game without the problem of slowdown.

That also means future patch makers can just base their patch on that WOTL ISO and not have to worry about creating patches for both versions.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 14, 2009, 02:06:31 pm
Hmm... well the expansion of the ISO and the import of the Dark Knight and Onion Knight, not to mention the new events would aid everyone a ton, but how feasible is all of that?
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Post by: Archael on February 14, 2009, 02:11:10 pm
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Hmm... well the expansion of the ISO and the import of the Dark Knight and Onion Knight, not to mention the new events would aid everyone a ton, but how feasible is all of that?

I have no idea, I'm just posting the idea because I think it's something worth our while to attempt once it becomes possible

it'd be the most utilized hack in all of FFT history, I can tell you that much
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 14, 2009, 02:14:41 pm
I've said this before, but I'd loved to see it done.
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Post by: Shade on February 14, 2009, 02:35:09 pm
FFT Where you play only with Ramza. Basicly the idea is to give everyone MA- and defense up to everyone by using these Defend Up innate all
BATTLE.BIN
0x11F2E6 change 0x40 to 0x20
Credits to Razele

Magic Defend Up innate all
BATTLE.BIN
0x11F336 change 0x40 to 0x20
Credits to Razele

That means battles are slower. and more dificult.

You will be going with a quest throught whole game they will change alot. There would Boco, Delita, Gaffy, Agrias, Cloud, Reis, Rad, Lavian, Alicia(Rad Lavian and Alicia would have new jobs and they would come on moment's like after chapther 2 or something like that.) Beowolf, worker 7(or 8 can't remember) and so on.

There would be some cutscenes that were they will leave and come bacck or they will die something like that.

There would be some changes on classes that there would be 2 diffrent archer quess how bard and dancer will be replaced with these two and they have diffrnt skill set and equiment.
And calculator would be red mage.
Mediator will be replaced by blue mage.
Priest and Wizard are named as white mage and balck mage.
Lancer wil be named Dragoon and won't use anymore jump.
Ramza and some of the Ramza, guest's and bosses will be able to have attack up and MA.

Mime will be only for Boss guys like Miluda, Wiegraf, Balk, Gaffy

That's my idea.

Also Arch that would be great if we could play WOTL with PSX.
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Post by: Asmo X on February 14, 2009, 11:01:40 pm
I have thought about a Razma-only patch too. It would require some ASM hacking, but I was thinking each sign of the Zodiac could give you different innate abilities/traits. So Ramza would actually be getting RSM from his ability list, whatever was innate to the class he was in, and whatever sign of the Zodiac he was.
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Post by: Asmo X on February 15, 2009, 01:16:16 am
Also, some of the threads that have been closed recently like the ovelia chapters and that deal ShadowX was working on could be reposted to this thread being that they were still at the "ideas" stage.
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 15, 2009, 12:54:13 pm
I've let the authors of those topics know that they can do so. Whether they do so or not is up to them.
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Post by: ShadowX on February 15, 2009, 06:16:00 pm
Currently: Spriting, text edits, skill changes

Nonstoryline changes
- Replace Deep Dungeon or add a new sidequest involving the Organization 13 from KH (If I replace Deep Dungeon (if possible) there will be the addition of a new difficult sidequest.
-Complete job and slight skill change
-Replace Dancer with a female only class called Muse and scrap Bard Muse will consist of Attacks and buffs to keep the Bard and Dancer feel
- Replace Bard with a male only physical class (This is not certain, I might have to show the magical classes some love)
-Implement new item system for chemist new job Alchemist Decided to scrap, changing chemist to Medic which has no real big changes.

Story synopsis
The story revolves around 2 young men who serve as knights under the King of Ivalice. The two young men rose in rank quickly because of the special skills they acquired from the distant land from which they came as children. The kings rule came to an abrupt end when he was pronounced dead from an illness he recently developed. The brother of the king took his place on the throne soon after. One of the young men find that the death of the king is odd because the king had been fine the last time he visited him only days prior, so he decides to investigate this matter. the young man finds more that he bargained for when he find out the king had been poisoned by his own brother. The boy tries to find someone to explain this to, but not even his own brother (the other young man) believes him. He decides to take this information to the church, the only people with a voice as big as the royal family in Ivalice.

Main character roles, jobs, and sprite ideas
Kojiro (Last name TBD) Job: Ronin Skillset: Soul Blade Role: This is the main character taking the role that was originally Ramza's. He is your main protagonest and his role in the story is much similar to Ramza's (The preserving justice thing not the save Alma thing.) Sprite: Incomplete- I was thinking of making or having made a sprite based on the Parivir from FFTA2 because of his job. For chapter one I want him to have a innocent looking portrait much like Ramza in chapter one and for the next three I was thinking of  a more proud look. Maybe in chapter 4 he could even get full samurai armor, helmetless of course.

Kotaro (Last name TBD) Job: Shinobi Skill: Ninjutsu Role: He is the brother of Kojiro. He switches between protagonist and antagonist throughout the story His role is similar to Delita's but becomes much different after the major changes in chapter 2. Sprite: Thinking of making him similar to the ninja in FFTA with a revealed face. I don't know what changes I want to make to his appearance over the chapters.

(More to come)

Opening script
Many will find this a complete rip off of FFT's opening. But I assure you the story will take turns that will pull away from FFT's plot. Even my chapter 1 flashback proved to be different.
(Inside church chapel (Hopefully I will be able to use the chapel in Ramza and Delita's cutscene instead of the one from the original opening))
It has been weeks since this has happened.
I cannot believe it has come to this.
It seems like I've turned my back on everything I once stood for.

Father Roan: Thank you, Child. This is enough proof to restore the peace Ivalice once had.
Kojiro: No father, thank you. I want nothing more than to bring that man to justice.
Father: You always were loyal to the late king. But I must ask a favor of you before your request is realized. You must escort the High Priestess to the capital with this book so that the main branch of the church will aid you.
Kojiro: This task is only a mere stepping stone in my quest to dethrone that traitor.
(Knight enters)
Knight:Father! The Banner of Red is attacking the church!
Kojiro: This can't be!
(Kojiro quickly exits)
Father: Protect us, oh lord.
(Fade out)

(Outside the Church)
Red Banner Knight: So the church has sent a traitor to fight us. The money on his head seems like a bribe to divert us from our objective.
Kojiro: Don't think the bounty on my head will be an easy mark
Church Knight: We've been trying our best to drive them away.
Kojiro: Then they must be incapacitated.
(Battle begins)

(After the battle)
(High Priestess screams)
Priestess: Unhand me! This is an act of heresy
Unknown man: There are no heretics serving under the king.
(Man punches the priestess)
Man: Forgive me, Father...
(Kojiro runs through back door)
Kojiro: Stop where you are!
(Kojiro surprised stance)
Kojiro: Wait... Kotaro?
Kotaro: It's been quite a long time... brother.
Kojiro: Return the priestess!
Kotaro: I cannot do that. And I'd advise you not to follow me, traitor...
(Kotaro rides off on his chocobo)
Kojiro: Damn...
(Fade out)

Job changes (I lost the chart I made on my old comp so I'm just going to type up what I had here.)
Squire --> Warrior Skill: Basics (Note: Basically made this class to show that the main character and his group are more advanced from the start.)
Chemist --> Medic Skill: Item (Note: Not much changes here except for name and sprite.)
Knight --> Aegis Knight Skill: Sword & Shield (Note: Trying to implement some defensive skills here.)
Archer --> Ranger/Hunter Skill: Aim (Note: Not sure on name just yet. I want to implement some new skills other than charge/aim)
Wizard --> ??? Skill: ??? (Note: I will need to get my chart back to get this one, I forgot what I had.)
Priest --> Savior Skill: Healing Magic (Note: Not much changes here.)
Monk--> Monk/Berserker Skill: Focus/Maul (Note: Not sure on which one to go with. The one that is chosen will probably determine the skills.)
Thief -->Thief Skill: Debauchery (Note: Couldn't think of a better name. I'm going to try and make Thief more interesting.)
Time Mage --> Chronologist Skill: Time Distortion (Note: Not much changes but you could see a variation of Galaxy Stop in here since I'm not using Astrologist.)
Oracle --> ??? Skill: ??? (Note: I'm not sure if I had one for this on my chart.)
Geomancer --> Elementalist Skill: Elemental (Note: Note much changes here. I don't want to waist the Geomancy system.)
Lancer --> Dragon Knight Skill: Dragon Skill (Note:Going to try and compile jump into one skill and add Reis' skills.)
Summoner --> ??? Skill: Contract (Note: Not much changes here. I can't remember the name I had at the moment.)
Mediator --> Tamer Skill: Tame (Note: I'm probably going to spread the word skills out among the classes. This job will Work closely with monsters but the invite skill will be here and it will work on humans.)
Ninja --> Ninja Skill: Nindo (Note: I have an idea in mind involving my main characters and that's why there's no name change. Also there's might not be a sprite change)
Samurai --> Samurai Skill: Living Blade (Note: See Ninja)
Bard --> ??? Skill: ??? (Note: Currently don't have anything for bard because of the new Muse class)
Dancer --> Muse Skill: Song & Dance (Note: My solution to Bard and Dancer though it will be female only)
Calculator --> ??? Skill:??? (Note: Don't know exactly what to do with this.)
Mime --> ??? Skill: ??? (Note: See Calc)

Pending changes
-Main character sprites
-Job sprites
-Organization 13 sidequest sprites

Completion list
- Job and skill set name changes
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Post by: Asmo X on February 15, 2009, 10:19:22 pm
Quote from: "ShadowX"There are somethings I would ask for, like skill suggestion, but it seems like things will be difficult with a megathread...

Stop feeling sorry for yourself. It looks pathetic. People are going to read the thread. It would also help if you were more specific than "give me skill suggestions". We don't even know what your new classes are and what role you want them to play.

Also Dom, would it be possible to rename this thread to show that it is the ideas/brainstorming thread and not just a rules thread? People who have no intention of posting projects but still want to propose ideas might skip it.
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 15, 2009, 10:30:25 pm
Noted.
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Post by: Archael on February 15, 2009, 10:47:27 pm
megathreads actually work, yo
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Post by: ShadowX on February 16, 2009, 12:03:32 am
Quote from: "Asmo X"Stop feeling sorry for yourself. It looks pathetic. People are going to read the thread. It would also help if you were more specific than "give me skill suggestions". We don't even know what your new classes are and what role you want them to play.

I don't see how that could show me "Feeling sorry for myself" but then again most of the things I see you post make little sense. I'm not being specific because the chances of this working are slim. This only looks like it's working because it's still on the first page...

I have a suggestion though for this to actually work. This gets going and a few more pages start showing up there should be a link of the pages and a list of the ideas on them in the first post. If this happens I'd love to change my post to make it more useful.
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Post by: Asmo X on February 16, 2009, 01:56:39 am
Oh, no-one's going to see my requests for spells because of the big ol nasty megathread. Poor me. So let me get this straight. The megathread is a bad idea because no one will make suggestions and as if to fulfil to your own prophecy you refuse to give any helpful information that would allow people to give you those suggestions.

Look man, get your fucking act together and help people to help you or just get out.
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Post by: dwib on February 16, 2009, 02:55:56 am
Quote from: "ShadowX"I'm not being specific because the chances of this working are slim. This only looks like it's working because it's still on the first page...
you still sound like you're complaining here.

Quote from: "ShadowX"but then again most of the things I see you post make little sense.
are you joking me??

Anyways, currently started a patch inspired by mercenaries, but it won't be nearly as big. Here Ramza decides to chase after Delita at the beginning of chapter 2 and joins up with him rather than going along with agrias and them.
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Post by: Asmo X on February 16, 2009, 03:09:06 am
A lot of what happens in Chapter 1 is to establish why Delita and Ramza can't really continue to coexist. So you might have to edit some of that as well. You can say that Ramza just decides to distance himself from his family completely after the shitfest at Zeakden, but Delita is still firmly disenchanted with the aristocracy thanks to his interactions with Algus. If he just decides to trust Razma, some of that becomes sort of irrelevant. Especially since Algus' belief is that the distinction between aristocracy and the commoners is assumed at birth.
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Post by: Shade on February 17, 2009, 02:38:44 pm
Idea. Patch about times when Ramza was with Gaffy before start of chapter 2.
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Post by: Dokurider on February 17, 2009, 03:14:21 pm
Quote from: "Shade"Idea. Patch about times when Ramza was with Gaffy before start of chapter 2.

Funny.
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Post by: DarthPaul on February 17, 2009, 04:22:33 pm
That would be a relatively short story. Not a bad idea, but there isn't a lot of "flavor" to it.

Mercenaries is a much better show of the bond between Ramza and the mercenaries, even though it is another story.
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 17, 2009, 06:55:11 pm
Mercenaries is pretty AU when you think about it though. Shade's idea is just a part of the plot you never see. It sounds interesting.
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Post by: ShadowX on February 18, 2009, 09:08:54 pm
I've updated my post just to let everyone know.

And no I'm not going to continue the argument because it would just be a waist of space. Instead of verbally fighting about it we'll just see if what my words actually meant happens.

Idea: Follows a child of Olan who seeks to find out why his father was burned and what actually happened to his grandfather.
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Post by: Archael on February 18, 2009, 09:21:10 pm
I think someone should explain more of the Zodiac Demons / what they really are in connection to Altima and St. Ajora

and all that stuff
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 18, 2009, 09:48:20 pm
Shadow X, I understand the need for hiding stuff in your post, but there's not really enough there to hide it. It might receive more attention that way.

Just a suggestion.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 19, 2009, 03:19:19 pm
Quote from: "Voldemort"I think someone should explain more of the Zodiac Demons / what they really are in connection to Altima and St. Ajora

and all that stuff

Originally the opening to Mercenaries was an old man telling a story to a bunch of children (using the Hopital in the Slums map) in which afterwards you played as the Zodiac Braves in a demo battle like thing at Riovanes. Though with the change to Mercenaries dealing very little with the Lucavi and St. Ajora her/himself, I thought it a bit odd... though I'd love to see someone else do that, that is of course if people would think it'd be a good idea.
 

Also a St. Ajora patch is delight in my book! I would love to see someone attempt to write out Ajora's story.
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Post by: Kokojo on February 19, 2009, 03:21:30 pm
It was at first my initial idea, but i was not please to rewrite FFT, however, i had some good ideas, and if someone starts this pacth, count on me for the help.
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Post by: Archael on February 19, 2009, 03:25:54 pm
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
Quote from: "Voldemort"I think someone should explain more of the Zodiac Demons / what they really are in connection to Altima and St. Ajora

and all that stuff

Originally the opening to Mercenaries was an old man telling a story to a bunch of children (using the Hopital in the Slums map) in which afterwards you played as the Zodiac Braves in a demo battle like thing at Riovanes. Though with the change to Mercenaries dealing very little with the Lucavi and St. Ajora her/himself, I thought it a bit odd... though I'd love to see someone else do that, that is of course if people would think it'd be a good idea.
 

Also a St. Ajora patch is delight in my book! I would love to see someone attempt to write out Ajora's story.

I like the idea, but I said someone should EXPLAIN that aspect of the story, in an existing patch

not a new st. ajora patch

no full storyline project is even done yet, and I don't see a brand new one from scratch being done anytime soon, either
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Post by: Shade on February 19, 2009, 03:35:20 pm
Arch I was writing ideas but I forgot to post them put idea about zodiacs is actually my dream project.

Story begins at time when Ajora born with name Ajora Stone(In the story that I have in head he is a boy with long silver hair(Does this resample anything hmph??)).
After week after he was born his village of Kattar(whitch is close to Murond Death city) Deadliest fog Midgar Zolom came and killed all people expect Ajora and his family. He was called God's holy child Ajora.

At same Sed Beoulve who was 8 years old, his farther Zack Beoulve 32 years old and his brother Vain Beoulve 14 were on Barius hill on vacation. Zack is teaching their sons to whistle with grass.
Little back up story with Beoulve family tree:
The story start that nice demon named Lyla that liked to use human form of her was slave of a Arch Witch.
One day when A brave knigt one of the Zodiac braves(one of the those heroes you know) watched demon when she was in her human form, when she was in castle. Knight asked from Lyla "Why are you looking so sad?". "I am not free that's why I am sad" Lyle answered. "Can I make you free asked?" Knight asked again. Lyle said "No, you can't if you don't defeat her the arc witch".( I am not telling the whole story but you can quess that they married eachother.)

Little of start of story.
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Post by: Kokojo on February 19, 2009, 03:51:39 pm
Shade, i think Voldemort wanted to stick more to the soul of FFT Ajora, the one described in the story, not a Sephiroth clone ftw.

Anyway, your choice. Good luck.
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Post by: Archael on February 19, 2009, 05:29:56 pm
Quote from: "Kokojo"Shade, i think Voldemort wanted to stick more to the soul of FFT Ajora, the one described in the story, not a Sephiroth clone ftw.
.

I can't even understand Shade's posts anyway

Sephiroth clone?

 :shock:
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Post by: Cheetah on February 19, 2009, 06:24:08 pm
Final Fantasy Tactics: Complete

History: Lasting Dawn long ago suggested inserting the WotL script into FFT PSX. Methonal got a start on it but apparently his progress has slowed. Voldemort has been campaigning for this for a little while now.

Goals:
1) To insert the psp script into the psx version for starters. Voldemort mentioned getting all the new content in there, but I think that is perhaps to grandiose at this point.
1.5) Getting a majority of the name changes for skills, descriptions, and backstories also in line with the WotL translation. Or at the very least establish concrete choices between the two versions.
2) Get the story books that were removed in the US version of the game working and translated. Some real hacking skills would be needed to do this, but should be possible and would open up a new area of hacking for other projects.
3) Bug/glitch fixes. What would be considered bugs and which should be left in I think would be needed to be decided by the team who takes this on. But stuff like dublicating weapons and learning all the skills from a skill crystals.
4) If this project is done I would think it should be about making the perfect/complete version of the original FFT to create a good gold standard of FFT and be a great base for other patches to work off of.
5) All guest characters being controllable.
6) If you think there should be more changes do share. Because I know I didn't think of all of it.

What I don't think it should be:
I don't think this should turn into FFT v1.4 or something. The core gameplay should basically all stay exactly the same. Then if people want to really change game mechanics, story, or difficulty they can just base their build off of this. Just my personal opinions.

Feasibility: Inserting the new script should be relatively painless and is all established knowledge, it just takes time. With Melonhead's new amazing FFT Text editor all the text everywhere else in the game is also very easy to edit. Getting the story books to work will be much tougher, but should be possible given that the japanese PSX version has them in there working. Bugs/glitch fixing already already been done for many of the games issues, but will require experienced hackers on board. If some dedicated people got on board with this project, I honestly believe it could be finished quite rapidly.

Team Effort: This is a very good test project to see if a group effort can actually work because a diverse set of skills will be needed to complete it. Here is just a general idea of the kind of team you will need:

Event Editor: You will need at least one devoted event editor to insert the new scripts. Not a lot of experience is needed since it is basically copying a pasting for most of it and they will learn a lot during the process.
FFT Text Editor: I haven't used the program yet, but Melonhead has done wonders for this and it isn't that complicated. Someone could do this job and another job, the hardest part will be making decisions on what terminology to use. Getting the Story books looking correct and inserted will also be part of this team members job I believe.
ASM Hacker: You will need someone to do real hacking to do bug fixes, and I believe ASM hacking is the way to do that. Obviously you will need someone experienced for this.
Master Hacker: Getting the story books working is going to take some real hacking skills with in depth knowledge of FFT. I would recommend some really thorough analysis of the differences between the US and JAP versions of the games.
Translator: I don't believe there is a very good translations all the story books anywhere. So if they do get working, you are going to need someone to translate them.
Testers: Real dedicated testers. Not just people who play it and say "Wow that was awesome", but people who are really putting in work. Specifically you are going to need people that can actually play the PSP version as well and compare the two running side by side to make sure everything looks correct. Not to mention trying to fuck up the game and insure all the ASM hacks are working correctly and not messing anything else up. This would mean a lot of play time and replaying.
Lead: I believe a project with this many team members needs a leader. Not someone who wants to tell everyone what to do, but someone who knows how to track progress, divide up work, keep a cool head to settle arguments, has an actual plan for progression, has the time to do all this, and most importantly knows how to keep his team members happy and motivated.

Disclaimer: This has always seemed like a very logical project to me and I keep hearing lots of talk about it but no one taking action. However I too can not commit myself to this project and do not wish to fill one of the team member positions. Like any other member of FFH I can only support by giving advice and opinions when I can. So really I'm pussyfooting around this project as much as anyone else, but here at least is an idea of a plan and people can start stepping up to fill the positions if they want.
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 19, 2009, 06:36:36 pm
I started porting WOTL's text and terms into the original a while back, though a few changes didn't work before the new text editor came out. So if this does get off the ground, it can be used as a base for this project.

I can also post my observations about the text porting later tonight if anyone's interested. There were also a few other things to work around that need to be brought up.

I think it's obvious that I'd be psyched for this and would definitely want to work on this.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 19, 2009, 08:21:21 pm
That is certainly a good start Dominic. Have you tried out the new FFT texteditor much?
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on February 19, 2009, 10:44:01 pm
Yeah I've used it, though mostly for PSP edits. I haven't tried many PSX edits edits yet.
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Post by: Shade on February 20, 2009, 06:56:49 am
Quote from: "Kokojo"Shade, i think Voldemort wanted to stick more to the soul of FFT Ajora, the one described in the story, not a Sephiroth clone ftw.

Anyway, your choice. Good luck.

Not that long hair.

Normal boy hair:
_____

Ajora's hair(what it would be in that story):
______________

Sephiroth hair:
________________________________________

This is the diffrence.
Normal boy hair would be like 3-6cm
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 20, 2009, 07:39:55 am
Wha? We know what Ajora's hair looks like? The picture we see in the game of what is normally considered to be him/her is of a fellow / lady in something similar to a nun's habit.
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Post by: Dormin Jake on February 20, 2009, 01:19:17 pm
The portrait LastingDawn mentioned:

(http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/images/avatars/gallery/Others/140.gif)
The silver hair idea is probably coming from cracked out Alma and Altima:

(http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/images/avatars/gallery/special/49-0.gif)(http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/images/avatars/gallery/special/65-0.gif)
But I really only think the silver hair is to show she's been possessed by some sort of powerful spirit.  You sometimes hear of people's hair turning white after experiencing some sort of tremendous shock or trauma, and I always figured Alma's hair color change was something akin to that, rather than St. Ajora's actual hair color.

The silver hair is probably Altima's trademark rather than Ajora himself, but one could probably go either way with it.  It would make more sense if Ajora's hair was silver after he contracted Altima, I would think.
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Post by: Archael on February 20, 2009, 01:56:36 pm
nice catch there Dormin
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Post by: Shade on February 20, 2009, 03:20:30 pm
Remember the poison fog the Midgar Zolom.
That is what made his hair gray. That means that even thought he did not die, but still something happened.

But I think we can change the color of his hair.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 20, 2009, 05:15:24 pm
Another thing I would recommend for the FFT: Complete Patch.

6) All guest characters being controllable.
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Post by: Shade on February 20, 2009, 06:23:38 pm
And there it came. the best udea ever from genius.
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Post by: SydneySoul on February 21, 2009, 03:30:21 am
*wants Cheetah's patch* So that's two that I'll be playing - Remix and Complete. :3 Someone get to work! :o
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Post by: SentinalBlade on February 21, 2009, 02:19:34 pm
Cheetah isnt doing it. he is just posting here cause its kind of a lesser discussed lost topic. read teh disclaimer :3
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Post by: SydneySoul on February 21, 2009, 03:41:19 pm
Read the part that says "someone get to work".
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Post by: SentinalBlade on February 21, 2009, 03:48:07 pm
Read the part that says he would rather not do this and is pussyfooting around it. hes got alot of work to do with CoK, he doesnt have time for it :P

I dont even see where your pointing at...i reread it and i dont think i saw that...

even if tis in there, i think he means someone else :O
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Post by: Dokurider on February 21, 2009, 04:28:00 pm
Quote from: "Asmo X"I have thought about a Razma-only patch too. It would require some ASM hacking, but I was thinking each sign of the Zodiac could give you different innate abilities/traits. So Ramza would actually be getting RSM from his ability list, whatever was innate to the class he was in, and whatever sign of the Zodiac he was.

I had a similar idea.
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1942 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1942)
Shot down.
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Post by: SentinalBlade on February 21, 2009, 04:37:07 pm
^ i think thats a good idea, but your going at it a wrong way with the Class boosts.

Maybe give each sign a more useful bonus, to everyone. like Pisces gives a small water element defense/damage dealt boost

instead of making it something like saggitaurus is used for nearly all ranged classes. it should be smaller, more rounded bonus.
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Post by: Dokurider on February 21, 2009, 04:41:17 pm
That's what I started doing towards the end. 25% boost to Counter/C.Magic/C.Flood if you're a Scopio was my best suggestion IMO.
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Post by: SentinalBlade on February 21, 2009, 04:46:42 pm
oho, i like that one. i may scrap my elemental affinity idea to get something like that going on. thanks doku
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Post by: Dokurider on February 21, 2009, 04:48:26 pm
Just draw your inspiration from the mythology surrounding said sign.

Wiki sez that Scorpio was summoned by Artemis to kill Orion after he raped one of her servants. So naturally, Scorpio is a Sign of Revenge.
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Post by: SydneySoul on February 21, 2009, 09:22:24 pm
In reference to my post... it's pretty obvious. You people really just skim on these forums, apparently.
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Post by: Archael on February 21, 2009, 09:28:27 pm
Quote from: "SydneySoul"In reference to my post... it's pretty obvious. You people really just skim on these forums, apparently.

What do you mean "you people"?
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Post by: dwib on February 21, 2009, 09:46:45 pm
Quote from: "Voldemort"
Quote from: "SydneySoul"In reference to my post... it's pretty obvious. You people really just skim on these forums, apparently.

What do you mean "you people"?

What do YOU mean "you people"??
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Post by: Asmo X on February 21, 2009, 09:57:31 pm
Quote from: "Dokurider"
Quote from: "Asmo X"I have thought about a Razma-only patch too. It would require some ASM hacking, but I was thinking each sign of the Zodiac could give you different innate abilities/traits. So Ramza would actually be getting RSM from his ability list, whatever was innate to the class he was in, and whatever sign of the Zodiac he was.

I had a similar idea.
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1942 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1942)
Shot down.

This is silly. Nothing is safe from min/maxing already. Why the fuck do the min/maxers get to decide what would be a good idea for the game or not? And all this without hearing what the bonuses would actually be.
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Post by: Havermayer on February 22, 2009, 02:57:13 pm
Reposting:

QuoteYou can file this under "super awesome dream that will probably never come true".

But wouldn't it be awesome if someone edited Vagrant story and turned it into a turn based, team tactical game like FFT? Characters would take turns, have a limit to how much they could move per turn, have jobs, etc etc. Just like any other tactical RPG.

Kind of like a merger of FFT and Vagrant Story, and taking the best elements of both.

So how hard would such an idea be to pull off realistically?

Think of it as taking the graphics engine of Vagrant Story, and turning it into a FFT style game.
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Post by: Archael on February 22, 2009, 07:46:25 pm
HACK: expand FFT's resolution / field of view to 16:9
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Post by: Shade on February 24, 2009, 03:47:25 am
Quote from: "Voldemort"HACK: expand FFT's resolution / field of view to 16:9

with field of wiew to 16:9 are you refering to full screen????
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Post by: Archael on February 24, 2009, 08:07:09 am
Quote from: "Shade"
Quote from: "Voldemort"HACK: expand FFT's resolution / field of view to 16:9

with field of wiew to 16:9 are you refering to full screen????

wide screen

like WOTL
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Post by: Vanya on February 24, 2009, 12:44:08 pm
I think I'll start a simple class patch kinda like the one Celdia did.
FFT with FF1 jobs expanded with new abilities.
Warrior, Thief, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, & Red Mage.
Paladin, Ninja, Sensei, White Wizard, Black Wizard, & Mage Knight.
(Yeah, I'm renaming some of them.)
I'll make custom versions of all the original FFT jobs for enemies only.
So I guess it would be kinda like a "FFT vs FF1" hack.
Comments?
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Post by: Celdia on February 24, 2009, 12:53:55 pm
I love everything FF1. Would be amazing if you could redo the generic unit sprites to look like the original FF1 classes.
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Post by: Vanya on February 24, 2009, 03:02:15 pm
That wouldn't be any problem at all. ^_^
What I'd love to do in the long run is a tactics remake of FF1 with a new overworld & maps.
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Post by: Celdia on February 24, 2009, 04:39:35 pm
While I'm sure that would be very interesting, that's definitely more than a simple little patch. Though one patch that leads to another then to another...well, building it once functioning piece at a time certainly wouldn't be a bad way to start.
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Post by: ShadowX on February 24, 2009, 09:42:42 pm
I'm just posting to say I recently lost my old computer that had all my work on it. And that would also explain my absence. After I continue to recover all the stuff I lost I'll continue to update my post.

Sorry I got off topic ^_^
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Post by: Archael on February 28, 2009, 02:23:35 pm
Anyone who understand image aspect ratio / resolution better than me

what exactly did they do to WOTL's Camera to get it to 16:9 resolution?

I believe the camera shows a little more of the map in WOTL, as you can see in DominicNY18's screenshots
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Post by: Desocupado on February 28, 2009, 04:17:49 pm
Maybe a total storyline turnover would be nice.
What about Ramza joining the church? And then trying to take it over while facing Thundergod Cid, Agrias and such people.
Think of Tactics Ogre Lawful mode story. (Tough the SNES title "Der Langrisser" have a better story with this kind of choice).
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Post by: Havermayer on March 03, 2009, 02:01:06 am
I forgot about the "Debug Code" thing.  It sounds like it has some nice features.  So, would it be possible to create a patch that's based around the debug code and perhaps even expands upon it?  

One of the cooler features of it was that it allowed you to pit two teams against eachother (both controlled play player 1), so it was sort of like an FFT multiplayer.

More on this debug mode:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197339/3878 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197339/3878)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMpR38LB6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMpR38LB6E)
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Post by: SentinalBlade on March 03, 2009, 02:15:19 am
^ Its funny, when FFT was rereleased in japan as "Ultima Edition"

It gave support for two controllers...which im betting more than anything, they let people use debug mode to whack the nsot out of eachother....
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Post by: Havermayer on March 03, 2009, 02:20:13 am
Quote from: "SentinalBlade"^ Its funny, when FFT was rereleased in japan as "Ultima Edition"

It gave support for two controllers...which im betting more than anything, they let people use debug mode to whack the nsot out of eachother....

Neat, I didn't know about that.  What other features did this "Ultima Edition" have?
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Post by: jimmyjw88 on March 03, 2009, 06:42:55 am
Ultima edition??
0.o
Oooo....
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Post by: Kokojo on March 04, 2009, 06:39:41 pm
The Boss Tryout Pacth.

In this amazing Pacth, You start with a team of guys, all level 50, with all jobs and random skills unlocked, also with randoms faith brave and signs. (you get to sort them)
Your Hero is Level 65, and he has more Skills, and a set Brave/Faith.

You start with a variation of weapons and armor, x4 of each, because you can actually only use 4 persons per battle.

Using 1.3 Statstable and skills (Execpt specials one)

As you start your journey, there is no turning back! Fight bosses afther bosses, such as :

The Golem : With an Innate Protect, Shell and regen, you are gonna have trouble taking him down, bruteforce fight !
The Puppetter and the Puppet : While the puppet is a Slow moving, unkillable monster of Hell, the pupetter is just a Coward magician that likes to teleport, bring him down and the battle is over.
The two chosen one : As these two battle over their greatness, you try to survive all the spells that are raining around you.
The Mastermind : Your units will never think the same way afther this battle.
The Chiken of evil : Just attemps to bring it down...just attemp to.

And there it goes, the ideas been trown. If we get a minor contribution from people, this could very well be done, as it involve more balancing than anything else, a so simple event editing, rather than a full pacth.
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Post by: Asmo X on March 06, 2009, 11:41:46 pm
I think you should only be able to bring 3 units to battle. Also, new skills(ets) probably. lots of abilities don't scale well in encounters where you aren't fighting a variety of units.
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Post by: red_bird on March 11, 2009, 11:28:04 am
i'm implementing a system for leveled spells for my patch, wherein the weakest level 1 spells have the AoE and Veritical of the vanilla level 4 spells and the level 4 spells have the worst AoE and Vertical, with levels 2 and 3 being between them.  this is an attempt to make every ability useful within the framework of FFT Vanilla, and when that doesn't fly, within the framework of similiar FFs.  I think FF 9 is the traditional FF most like FFT in... spirit?  intention?  execution?  i don't know.  i just wish FF9 had a geomancer, and a physical equivalent of Vivi's Focus.

i did something similiar with the samurai abilities.  i made koutetsu similiar to kikuichimoji, but half as strong, and i reduced kikuichimoji's range and aoe by half.
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Post by: Shade on March 11, 2009, 03:04:46 pm
Quote from: "Kokojo"The Boss Tryout Pacth.

In this amazing Pacth, You start with a team of guys, all level 50, with all jobs and random skills unlocked, also with randoms faith brave and signs. (you get to sort them)
Your Hero is Level 65, and he has more Skills, and a set Brave/Faith.

You start with a variation of weapons and armor, x4 of each, because you can actually only use 4 persons per battle.

Using 1.3 Statstable and skills (Execpt specials one)

As you start your journey, there is no turning back! Fight bosses afther bosses, such as :

The Golem : With an Innate Protect, Shell and regen, you are gonna have trouble taking him down, bruteforce fight !
The Puppetter and the Puppet : While the puppet is a Slow moving, unkillable monster of Hell, the pupetter is just a Coward magician that likes to teleport, bring him down and the battle is over.
The two chosen one : As these two battle over their greatness, you try to survive all the spells that are raining around you.
The Mastermind : Your units will never think the same way afther this battle.
The Chiken of evil : Just attemps to bring it down...just attemp to.

And there it goes, the ideas been trown. If we get a minor contribution from people, this could very well be done, as it involve more balancing than anything else, a so simple event editing, rather than a full pacth.

The Puppetter and the Puppet would be fun and we can do it by giving puppet intiate wall status and pupetter teleport 2, also we could give pupetter move-hp up, intiate regen and haste status.

The two chosen one(better name: the great battle of grand sage and arch witch) they could have big spell that have something like 5 AOE and unlimited verticality and spell that they have status immunity, but you don't. their spell don't hit themselfs.

My Ideas:

Lord Marbolo: I think game would give him the great bad breath. it would have AOE of 3 with samurai way so it will do it to suroundings(this word is failure). It would have marbolo skill expect for bad breath because he has better version of it. extra skill would be fury breath(It would be range of norma fire breath and it gives 100%  bersek(I wrote it wrong)). support skills would be counter flood 50% change to hit so it has 50 brave, MA up. it would have move of 2.

Demon general:
Yes demon general to kick your ass with assistent of soldier demons.
General demon would have heck of move and jump. He would have as his skill some AOE 2 buffing(100%, but also it can't hit you gg). His hp would be only 2000 but he has hp restore and his brave is 35, so 35% change when he is critical. he knows how to rez people.

Soldier demons would be rapers they would have low hp. but they do alot of damage. they would be bad asses as casters and figthers. martial arts, dragon spirit. they would start with reraise. they know way of healing.
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Post by: Kokojo on March 13, 2009, 02:46:06 pm
Thank you shade, those a good ideas il probably use if i make the pacth.

Anyway, asking the community, would you like a Random Battle Idea thread ?

I noticed a lot of new pacthes would need new random battles, and those battle could use your setups, ideas, and even the AI team from the 1.3 tournament. It would just be ideas afther ideas, and anybody could use them.
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Post by: Raikomaru on March 14, 2009, 02:52:57 pm
At the behest of Cheetah, who kindly directed me here after my first post went awry, here are my thoughts.

From what I noticed of the PS-version of FFT, a lot of the 'unbalancing' comes from the enemy units. It's easy enough to reassign Elmdor and such to make them less broken, but then there remains the monster units. They suck, are overpowered or some combination thereof. I had this idea to remedy that little deficiency.

By the by, the reason why I don't just implement them myself is probably because I'm the single-worst coder on the face of the Internet(read: because I don't know jack about coding). Therefore, I do this, so as to help and inspire other people.

1: Make the Monster abilities work like, say, human job skills, and can be arranged as such. Monsters, too, gain JP and learn stuff from a tree of skills, thus making the monsters much more formidable and varied, and eliminating the need for those palette-swaps(we can simply use the palette we like the best, unless said palettes work like other jobs for them). This makes fighting monsters funner, as one'll never know what crazy new abilities they'll use this time.

2: The abilities themselves should also work like some of the human abilities. In other words, give the monsters a normal attack in addition to said skills, and give some of the bigger ones(IE: Choco Meteor et al) a charge-time.

3: ALL monsters should be available, including the enemy-only Apanda's and Archaic Demons of either gender. Ultima Demons, given who they masquerade as, might require new spritage as well, as their colours don't really fit the Archaic Demon mold.

4: Now, regarding Boco. I know of a sure-fire way of making him more useful: make him work like the Chocobo from the Dungeon series. Has his own Job Changes(although he starts off with the Chocobo skillset), equips gear and such. Might be fun, and, thus, makes him useful.

5: Monsters don't just drop off eggs whenever they feel like it and clog up every spot on the roster like 'tards. Instead, every monster in your party has sort of an 'Egg Gauge'. When it's full, you can command them to drop said egg into your party.


Hope this was useful. If you have any plans of your own to add to my list, feel free to.  :D
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Post by: CidIII on March 14, 2009, 03:42:37 pm
I call for a random battle thread, great idea!
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Post by: Zuka on March 17, 2009, 01:01:00 pm
So I'm thinking about a patch where all the items are buffed to the extent of being basically lvl 99+ gear, just for funsies, anyone have any other ideas that might make this patch WAAAAY too powerful for both PC's and NPC's? I think it would be fun to have a whole new inventory of gear, whether or not superpowered I kinda want to do a remake where all the items are different, anyone got ideas?

|| Edit || I do think just making all new items would be a better idea. however, I'm actually going to start work on a zombocalypse patch, anyone interested in the idea? I mean, interested enough so i should start a thread?
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Post by: Kaijyuu on March 19, 2009, 01:21:45 am
I'm thinking of adding Mog (from ff6) as a secret character. What would be a better way to implement him?

1) Have him be "female" as far as the game mechanics are concerned. (dancer job available, female for the purposes of zodiac compatibility, ect)
2) Male with the dancer abilities as part of his skillset.

I actually like 1 as far as mechanics are concerned (too many male special characters already), but I'm pretty sure he's a dude.


EDIT:
Quote from: "Zuka"So I'm thinking about a patch where all the items are buffed to the extent of being basically lvl 99+ gear, just for funsies, anyone have any other ideas that might make this patch WAAAAY too powerful for both PC's and NPC's? I think it would be fun to have a whole new inventory of gear, whether or not superpowered I kinda want to do a remake where all the items are different, anyone got ideas?
I'm not sure about making the items overpowered, but a remake of all the items in the original game isn't a half bad idea. All new items would put an interesting twist on even vanilla.
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Post by: Akai on March 22, 2009, 12:44:57 am
That does sound interesting. In fact, it goes well with an idea I'm about to bring up. Maybe we can work together?

Basically, I plan on adding moogles to FFT similar to how FFTA did it, with a new separate job tree and everything. In fact, I've already planned out the two job trees, forgive the n00bishness of it.

(http://h1.ripway.com/akai/JobTrees4.jpg)

Let me explain the new jobs being added.

1) Mog Knight: Think similar to Monk only with weapons and armor! If you've played FFTA, you'll know them off the bat.

2) Animist: think Mediator with some other improvements.

3) Tinker: Must be good if it requires a lot to unlock, eh? Think Chemist, but the opposite effect! Potions that hurt and cause status ailments! Ever wanted to give Elixirs more of a punch? Here's a job for you!

I plan on replacing the sprites of the females with their respective moogle class and fortunately, I'm a pretty good spriter! Never worked with FFT sprites, so let's hope for the best! I plan on making Mustadio and his dad as moogles so you can have your Gunner class. 'Course plan on improving that Engineer job as well! For an added twist, Marache and Rapha won't be in the same job tree either!

It's just that...I've no real idea how to do half of these changes I'd like to do. Any help would be fully appreciated! ^o^;;;
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Post by: LastingDawn on March 22, 2009, 02:24:00 am
Ah, well you have it 100%, Squire as a base, then the "Dancer" "Bard" to make the split legit and very simple. You have a solid idea, but you will need the sprites of course, hehe.
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Post by: Akai on March 22, 2009, 10:49:05 am
Aye, like I said, I'm a pretty good spriter, just never worked with FFT sprites before. My biggest concern is hacking it properly, though looking how different FFT and FFTA sprites work, looks like I've plenty of work to do. *Pushes his hat forward* Alright, time to get to work!
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Post by: Cheetah on March 22, 2009, 12:46:14 pm
Well Akai if you can back this idea up with sprites to boot then sounds like you could have a pretty sweet project going.
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Post by: Oblivion on March 22, 2009, 03:32:46 pm
I plan on doing this as soon as I am able to edit the names of jobs, abilities, weapons, items, descriptions, etc. that appear in the game.

Jobs

All the jobs that are available in WOTL but some with new sprites and changes to their names and abilites.

Job List

Cadet: Ramza's Chapter 1 Squire Job
Mercenary: Ramza's Chapter 2 & 3 Squire Job
Heretic: Ramza's Chapter 4 Squire Job
Recruit: Delita's Squire Job
Paladin: Delita's Holy Knight Job
King: Delita's Ark Knight Job
Guard: Argath's Squire Job
Sentinel: Zalbaag's Ark Knight Job
Spellblade: Dycedarg's Rune Knight Job
Lord of Blades: Orlandeau's Sword Saint Job
Fallen One: Gaffgarion's Fell Knight Job
Khamja: Rapha's Skyseer Job and Marach's Netherseer Job
Gunner: Mustadio's Machinist Job
Maquis Of Limberry: Elmdore's Ark Knight Job
Guardian: Agrias's Holy Knight Job
Corpse Brigade: Wiegraf's White Knight Job
Knights Templar: The Knights Templar Job (Cletienne, Isilud, Barich, Wiegraf, Folmarv, & Loffrey)
Berserker: Meliadoul's Divine Knight Job
Servant of Zalera: Celia and Lettie's Assassin Job
Priest: White Mage Job
Wizard: Black Mage Job
Druid: Mystic Job
Ranger: Archer Job
Martial Artist: Monk Job
Sorceror: Time Mage Job
Soothsayer (maybe...any suggestions?):Orator Job
Mimic: Mime Job
Lanista: Dark Knight Job
Hunter or Trickster (undecided...any suggetstions?): Luso's Game Hunter Job
Death Eater: Argath's Death Knight Job
Magic Knight: Beowulf's and Aliste's Templar Job
Weapon Master: Onion Knight Job

That's it so far. Updates will come soon. If anyone has any suggestions post them here. I accept criticism but no flaming, please.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on March 24, 2009, 01:48:35 pm
this idea is inspired by Razele's hacks that allow equipment to modify stat growth and multipliers, a free multiclass patch, where all classes have neutral growth in all areas, so something like the following: 10 HPC, 10 MPC, 50 PAC, 50 MAC, 100 SPC.
Equipment and equipment set ups would be the main focus of the patch, hacking wise, with care taken to give each and every item purpose, until at least the end of the chapter it can be acquired. I'm thinking 9 total weapons and armors of each type should be sufficient, with the first 7 of each group being store bought, 1 rare poach only, and 1 move-find/steal only (1-of-a-kind). Some weapon types will have to be dropped in order to make room for extra weapons, I'd lean towards dropping Flails, Harps, Silks, Poles, Rods and Bags.

some proposed specifics for item growth/multiplier impact
Assumptions for initial calculation
HP=MP
PA=MA
2 points of HP/MP growth are worth 10 points of PA/MA growth, or 5 points of SP growth
HP/MP multipliers are equal to -10 x the growth modifier
PA/MA multipliers are equal to -2 x the growth modifier
SP multipliers are equal to -1 x the growth modifier

Armor: HPC -2, HPM +20, MPC +2, MPM -20
Helms: HPC -1, HPM +10, MPC +1, MPM -10
Clothes: no change to multipliers or growths
Hats: MPC -1, MPM +10, HPC +1, HPM -10
Robes: MPC -2, MPM +20, HPC +2, HPM -20

Weapons
   
   Knives:  HPC +2, HPM -20, PAC +10, PAM -20, SPC -10, SPM +10
   Ninja Swords: HPC +1, HPM -10, PAC +5, PAM -10, SPC -5, SPM +5
   Swords: PAC -5, PAM +10, MAC +5, MAM -10
   Knight Swords: PAC -10, PAM +20, MAC +10, MAM -20
   Axes: PAC -15, PAM +20, MAC +10, MAM -20, HPC -2, HPM +20, SPC +5, SPM -5
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Post by: SilvasRuin on March 24, 2009, 03:18:40 pm
To ehrgeiz20:

You misspelled Marquis.  You left the R out.  Just figured typos are best caught early.
Wizard, Priest, Druid, and Sorceror... do you plan on changing them quite a bit?  I could see them keeping the same exact abilities, especially since Wizard and Priest were their original translations.

What is Ranger going to be?  Adding swords or just daggers?  It's got to have more differences to Archers than the FFTA(2) Hunters and Snipers with that name.

Soothsayer would likely keep Condemn and maybe the ability 1.3 made Reraise.  Presumably it would be about predictions and time.  I could see Mystic type status abilities and something like Reflexes or Shirahadori for reaction as they would see the attack coming.

Are you eating Ninjas and Geomancers for Lanistas and Weapon Masters?  What about Dragoons?  Even if you centered your patch around WOTL, I don't believe you can allow the Onion Knights to use abilities that aren't innate.

Lanistas were absolutely horrible in FFTA2.  PLEASE tell me you're not going to try mimicking them.

I would prefer Hunter over Trickster, but with Gunner and Ranger, what hunter-oriented skills would be left?  It seems to me that "Game Hunter" is more a reference to a merc that targets FFXII type Marks rather than a traditional Hunter, so if you want to make him more like his backstory would suggest, he'd probably be something in between a merc and a Hunter.

Why call him a Death Eater?  Just for the sake of changing the name?  Same question for Magic Knight.  Do you intend to change anything?

What is supposed to make Weapon Master useful instead of the garbage that Onion Knight is in vanilla?  What do you plan to change?
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Post by: FFMaster on March 24, 2009, 07:31:06 pm
Hard Mode patch

Original topic
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2572 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2572)

QuoteI've been thinking about this for a little while now. The patch is fairly hard right now, but I want to push difficulty to its limits (without it being impossible). Of course the battles at the start will be easier than the ones in Chapter 4, but almost all battles will have a difficulty increase.


What I am thinking
-"Hard Mode" starts from Dorter Trade City
-Enemy have more levels, and better R/S/M than they have right now
-Team combo's will be used by the enemy (Bard + MP Switch and strategies like that)
-More special units (White Knights, Lune Knights, Heaven/Hell Knights, etc.) will be in battles
-More rare equipment will be on enemies (some stealable, some not)
-Better Brave/Faith (not random) for all enemies
-Monsters/generics will be mixed into story battles


I just want to know if there would be enough people willing to play this kind of patch.

Right now, I am planning to use 1.3 as a base, with major edits.

Suggestions/ideas appeciated. Posting here since I don't want to further clutter the New Projects section.
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Post by: Archael on March 24, 2009, 07:38:13 pm
Quote from: "FFMaster"Suggestions/ideas appeciated.

Razele has some ASM hacks that give EVERY enemy (not just specials) Innate DEFENSE UP / MDEFUP

definitely use those
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Post by: Oblivion on March 25, 2009, 01:26:28 am
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"To ehrgeiz20:

You misspelled Marquis.  You left the R out.  Just figured typos are best caught early.
Wizard, Priest, Druid, and Sorceror... do you plan on changing them quite a bit?  I could see them keeping the same exact abilities, especially since Wizard and Priest were their original translations.

What is Ranger going to be?  Adding swords or just daggers?  It's got to have more differences to Archers than the FFTA(2) Hunters and Snipers with that name.

Soothsayer would likely keep Condemn and maybe the ability 1.3 made Reraise.  Presumably it would be about predictions and time.  I could see Mystic type status abilities and something like Reflexes or Shirahadori for reaction as they would see the attack coming.

Are you eating Ninjas and Geomancers for Lanistas and Weapon Masters?  What about Dragoons?  Even if you centered your patch around WOTL, I don't believe you can allow the Onion Knights to use abilities that aren't innate.

Lanistas were absolutely horrible in FFTA2.  PLEASE tell me you're not going to try mimicking them.

I would prefer Hunter over Trickster, but with Gunner and Ranger, what hunter-oriented skills would be left?  It seems to me that "Game Hunter" is more a reference to a merc that targets FFXII type Marks rather than a traditional Hunter, so if you want to make him more like his backstory would suggest, he'd probably be something in between a merc and a Hunter.

Why call him a Death Eater?  Just for the sake of changing the name?  Same question for Magic Knight.  Do you intend to change anything?

What is supposed to make Weapon Master useful instead of the garbage that Onion Knight is in vanilla?  What do you plan to change?

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be sure to spell Marquis correctly.

Please note that the fights in my patch are going to be hard.

The Wizard job is going to have access attack, status, and time magicks but more attacking magicks than the rest. It will not have access to the level 4 spells Firaja, Blizzaja, and Thundaja. They also cannot use Flare and Death, but now have higher magick attack/defense, evasion, and speed. The Priest job will have access to support, status, and time magicks. Priest's cannot use Holy and Curaja anymore but now have higher weapon/magick defense, evasion, and speed. The Druid job is going to have access to status and time magicks. Druid's have higher weapon attack, seeing as it has access to decent attacking weapons (this was done to make the job better). It als gets a speed and evasion boost. The Sorceror job is the ultimate magician now. Having access to the time magicks not in use by the other jobs, plus the ultimate spells Flare, Holy, Firaja, Thundaja, Blizzaja, and Curaja. They can also use Ultima (Ramza's Version). This job gets a huge speed, evasion, and magick attack boost.

The Ranger Job is going to have Poach as an innate ability and will have quicker charge times. It is going to have access to bow, crossbows, knives, and guns. Concentrate is going to cost more job points.

As of right now, the Soothsayer job is basically aand Orator renamed. But I will fix that soon.

Ninjas and Geomancers are still in the game. Lanistas and Weapon Masters will not be replacing anything. Weapon Masters are going to be ten times better than the Onion Knight (lame name) job. They will be able to dual-wield any weapon and (if you want) any shield. Lanistas are going to have access to the Death spell as well as other "evil" abilities that usually would only be used by enemies.

Yes, I agree. Lanistas sucked ass in FFTA2. I am not mimicking the job. My Lanista is going to receive a huge weapon attack boost, but lower weapon defense (the HP and MP drain skills they have make up for that).

I like your suggestions. I'll base Luso (he's a Game Hunter) more off of his back story and give him a whole new skill set. Gunner is just a rename of Machinist. Aside from during the storyline, Mustadio never does anything machine related. Maybe I'll give him more. Ranger is explained above, but I wil alter it more.

Argath's Death Eater Job is going to be a helluvalot better and harder to beat. I wanted him to be more like he is in the link battle where you fight multiple Argaths. He's going to have a new skillset and better stats. I want he battle to be epic. He's going to have Vampire and other "evil" attacks. I decided to leave Bowulf and Aliste alone for now but that will change soon enough.

Weapon Masters are going to have two skillsets (if possible). They are going to be a lot of good abilities from around the game. I'm also going to boost stats. To keep it similar to Onion Knight, it gets better when all jobs are mastered... a lot better.

Anymore questions, comments, or suggestions?

Let me know.

Btw, if anyone wants to help, don't hesitate to ask. I need a spriter to help me with (you guessed it) spriting.

Did I mention that the fight with Argath is going to be harder than the final boss? He's going to be accompanied by other bad guys killed in the game (Wiegraf and Miluda are there, as well as Gaffgarion).

Sprites I need (as of now):

Sorceror Job (getting rid of Time Mage Sprite)
Undead Wiegraf
Undead Miluda
Undead Gaffgarion

Anyone want to help, let me know.

I wuz gonna say somthin else, but i forgot... (bad habit) :?
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Post by: SilvasRuin on March 25, 2009, 02:45:17 am
I don't see how you'll be able to do Weapon Masters.  I am under the impression that there currently isn't a way known to allow Onion Knights and Mimes to use abilities, so if you use Onion Knights as the base for Weapon Masters, then they presumably wouldn't be able to equip any abilities either without another hacking breakthrough, and I don't think ASM hacking cuts it for WOTL.

You'll need to remove abilities such as Equip Gun, Equip Crossbow, and other similar abilities AND Dual Wield, otherwise you would get dual pistol Orators, dual bow archers, and so on unless you somehow give Weapon Masters some very complicated coding.  Dual Wielding bows is bizarre anyways.  Dual Wielding any weapon probably isn't the best route to go with them.

You still haven't mentioned Dragoon, Summoner, and Samurai.  What about them?  You can't just add jobs to the wheel (at least, as it is now), and Onion Knight probably can't be altered all that much beyond stat multipliers, movement and jump, and innate support abilities.  

To give it two skillsets, you'd have to not give it one of its own and then turn Defend or something into a skill menu, which is a hack that's not been done yet.  Even then, I'm not sure you could make one for each job, and there's no telling how it will work if and when such an ASM hack is made.  Even if such a thing became possible, how in the world would you stop those support abilities granting an extra skillset from being able to be used in other jobs to wind up with a total of three skillsets?

Perhaps I misunderstood though.  Two unique skillsets maybe?  I suppose Defend could be turned into a skill menu eventually (I think I recall such a possibility being mentioned in one of the ASM hacking threads) and only appear as an innate support ability...  Of course then they could equip a second skillset from another job that way and wind up with three.

I've been toying with a significantly changed job tree myself, and I've almost ironed out a concept for it all that I really like.  After figuring out what classes I wanted and what purpose I wanted them to serve, I wound up with two leftovers.  I decided to take the Onion Knight/Weapon Master route, which is where this becomes relevant.  Instead of trying to make funny limitations or attempting to give them a ton of unique abilities, I figured I would give one the best support abilities for raw power as innate abilities and the other for spellcasting (and surviving through charging them).  I decided to give neither of them abilities.  The idea is that between their stats and innate abilities, the physical oriented one would be the best job for any physical oriented skillset and the magic oriented one would be the best job for any magic oriented skillset.  What's the catch?  They have no skillset of their own and thus can't use skills from two jobs.  They likely wind up the best at whatever you choose to use them for, but they cannot match the versatility that the "normal" jobs have.  Maybe that inspires you.  Maybe you like that idea as is.  Maybe you hate the idea.  The point of relating my concept was to try and help stimulate ideas.


Where and when is the Argath fight supposed to occur?  Are you changing it to an optional battle?

Your Lanistas sound almost like the FFX-2 Dark Knights.  You haven't given all that many details so far though, so that's only a guess.  If they are, I approve.  I know that game isn't universally popular, but I feel it has the most fleshed out Dark Knight class the games have had yet other than the pathetic Lanistas of FFTA2 and FFXI which I know next to nothing about.  Hm... that just gave me an ability idea for my stuff.

What's the point of giving the Sorcerers Ultima when they are also being given Flare?  Are you going with 1.3's Ultima?  I only see it being used by them when they don't have time to charge a longer spell.

Who's going to get what Time Magic?  Are Sorcerers going to be given Meteor along with the tier four spells?

Are you planning on changing Ramza's abilities?  Is Sorcerer's ultima going to be "blue magic" only?  What about normal Squires and Chemists?

If I may, Seer and Parivir are the jobs that stand out in my mind as the signature Human jobs from FFTA2.  Perhaps you could make Luso a variation or combination of the two.  Or just pick one for him and ditch the other.  Magick Frenzy might be difficult to emulate though.  You could instead opt for mimicking some setup from FFTXII or the hero characters from Revenant Wings.  The international version of FFXII has a job system of sorts that could have some interesting setups to choose from to emulate.

Ranger still sounds like a Hunter to me, only with the addition of guns.  I take some of your comments to mean you plan on changing their skillset.  Until you do, just giving them two more weapon types and innate Poach doesn't sound like to me like it is different from Archer enough to warrant a significant change in name.  Hunter to me is only very slightly different from Archer in meaning, as far as this series goes, thus the description sounding more like a Hunter than Ranger.
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Post by: Oblivion on March 26, 2009, 05:00:37 pm
to silvasruin:

i'm working on a "demo" version of my patch showing some of the changes. it'll be easier to answer questions by showing you.

i like the seer/parivir idea. i just might do that. good idea silvas.
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Post by: Zuka on March 28, 2009, 11:01:15 am
Allright, well, I'll be abandoning the Zombies patch, despite the fact when I posted in here no one said a thing (maybe 1 reply) and when I posted it's own thread I got a TON of feedback, But hey, it's cool, I'm just not going to worry about new patches...
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Post by: VincentCraven on March 28, 2009, 11:34:06 am
It's not just a matter of feedback

It's also a matter of getting done what you want to do, and having people interested in playing the patch.  If you are dependent on feedback to getting anything published, chances are you'll stop making it when the newness factor wears off.

Once you actually have something made for people to look at, then your potential fans will have a stronger position in what they feel about your patch.  That, and you'll get a better idea of whether or not you want to go through with the whole process.  But if you don't really feel like making the patch anymore that's cool too.  I rarely play any patches that have anything short of a complete overhaul, so I probably wouldn't care whether you had something or not.

I've been at the computer too long....
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Post by: Asmo X on March 28, 2009, 12:07:41 pm
Here's what you wrote about your idea in this thread:

Quote|| Edit || I do think just making all new items would be a better idea. however, I'm actually going to start work on a zombocalypse patch, anyone interested in the idea? I mean, interested enough so i should start a thread?

Wow sign me the fuck up!

Also, no one cares if you aren't making patches.
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Post by: Kokojo on March 28, 2009, 01:07:23 pm
Zuka, don't abbadon, just get something good done, not just ideas. At first when i started The call of power, i din't have any feedback, but at first as i provided people something to see, i got a lot of comments. A great elaboration comes with some feedback. But on a story, all your ideas, but include something for people.

Also, join the chat, i got most of my ideas there.
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Post by: Cheetah on March 29, 2009, 05:33:00 pm
That is some really good advice you gave Kokojo.

It is sad that this thread is so quiet, when in reality it should be one of the busiest on the forum.
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Post by: Asmo X on March 29, 2009, 11:37:53 pm
Seems pretty active to me. Seems like the amount of feedback a project is getting is commensurate with how interesting it is. I still really dig Koko's boss rush idea. Let's talk more about that. Should there be new sprites or would it be easier to modify sprites from other sources similar to what SB did for SoR? Also, how many stages should there be and which maps would be the best? Is there shopping? How many units should you get?
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Post by: Shade on March 30, 2009, 12:22:01 am
I would guess five units, Place where the fights are that you can chooce a battle like DD. From Maps and number of them I don't know.

Thse were quesses.
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Post by: Asmo X on March 30, 2009, 01:00:31 am
5 still sounds like way too much if you aren't going against a whole team. 3 would be better. 4 max. I don't know if it's possible to use other maps in the DD. That would be good. What if all the maps were in cities? It would sort of be like Ghostbusters. You'd have to go and eliminate monsters from streets, libraries, churches etc etc.
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Post by: Shade on March 30, 2009, 01:02:20 am
lol that's great damm Idea.
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Post by: Kokojo on March 30, 2009, 01:37:03 am
From what i've done for the boss pacth, it is mostly :

King : Oh no, ive put some EVIL butter over my crumpet ! The kingdom is doomed!
Vilain : Hahaha, i am the evil buttermaster ! Fear my minions that will corrupt your cities!
Hero : Never fear for i am here!
*Hero chooses from 16 random generics, he can take them all, but only 4 can fight*
Hero : Now i can battle those monster, rawr.
Vilain: Nooo!

Yes, all battle should be in cities, and this would be an easy thing to do, minus the skill. If someone starts the FFTpacther editing, il do all events no problems, since it's really easy. Sprites could be a bigger problem... but we could overcome this, i think monster editing is easier.

We should make this the first co-up pacth. (Cheetah, Voldemort, and the community for ideas, Voldemort for FFTpacther, me for events, and so on and so forth...) I swear if we get on it, this could be done in less than 2 months withouth any problem.
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Post by: Cheetah on March 30, 2009, 01:51:53 am
Part of me wants this to be like a different mode that replaces the tutorial. That would be cool and I think it would be doable, but I think for now it is probably best just to keep it as a full patch replacing the in game stuff. Here is a thought though. Instead of just bosses though just have a progression of battles that increase in difficulty. You get 5 generics to start off with simple equipment and those are the only part members that you will ever get. No world map or shops, only formation screen and saving between battles. People here talk a lot about having rouge-type games, so make it like that were you have to continue on using only the loot you get for passing a battle and what you can get from stealing or move-find item. Just a thought to have a more fleshed out project and less need for custom sprites.
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Post by: Asmo X on March 30, 2009, 02:24:11 am
A rogue-like version would be good, but we don't have it in our power to randomise enough of the content yet and saving in a rogue-like is a big no-no. I like the idea of bosses more because of how different it is, but yeah it might not be workable. Assassination missions are fucking terrible. I suppose they could be bosses with minions and the goal could be to kill everything.

As far as replay value goes, I wonder if it's possible to have an event where a number of characters ask to join but you can only choose 4 or 5 of them. Then they can be the only 5 you ever get, as you say.
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Post by: Kokojo on March 30, 2009, 02:44:53 am
Cheetah, about 80% of what you described is COP. The boss pacth would be to test your skills again really specific things, and add a twist to all battles, sure they will be minions....

What we need is people to work on this, because i won't till i finish COP demo.

Rogue could be possible, i mean, no-save is,but complete randomisation ? All item level 1, with different stats and effect.... could be interresting,
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Post by: Cheetah on March 30, 2009, 02:48:40 am
I think the saving aspect would just have to be a given because when emulating there is no way around it. But instead the difficulty would be that if you didn't plan right you could be essentially stuck, and have to start over or go to an earlier save anyways. You could still involve the boss battles by having it be like a boss every 5 or 10 battles. It would allow for more variety of battles types to not have it just bosses as well.

Replayability is an important consideration. I don't know about party members joining, I thought the replayability would come more from having to learn the order of the battles and planning what equipment/items to gather in what battle. Then of course this would be pretty good for speed runs because it would be very linear in nature but with a lot of variety and depth in between.

Branching paths may be an option though...
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Post by: Asmo X on March 30, 2009, 08:23:37 am
Well a lot of interesting suggestions have been made about what boss battles could construe. If its not a boss rush it doesn't really have an original hook if you ask me. Instead it's copying games like Vandal Hearts or Koko's patch.

Koko, one idea that was tossed around in channel way back was making a unit that has initial treasure box and can equip anything. This would allow you to put random treasure on each level. Unfortunately, initial treasure crashes the game. The best you could do for random dungeons would be branching paths and random units would have to be limited to "randomly present". Also, a good bulk of skills should be based on consumable items, which is actually pretty doable.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on March 30, 2009, 08:29:26 am
what if, instead of initial treasure, the unit had always: dead and immunity to crystal status? would that work? I'm pretty sure it would, but I haven't tested it or anything.
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Post by: Asmo X on March 30, 2009, 08:36:19 am
Yeah except it doesn't place a treasure box directly on the field. We tried making initial dead and max speed but some units still moved before the boxes appeared. Also you'd have an annoying delay as the CT runs up on the dead units before anything else can go. Maybe at a forced level 1 game nothing would get a turn before all the boxes appeared. Also, what if the sprites of the initial:dead units were changed to treasure boxes to make it not look shit?
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on March 30, 2009, 11:02:17 am
perhaps, instead of just making the treasure unit look like a treasure chest, make it look like a padlocked treasure chest, with the padlock disappearing once the counter runs down, with that change, you wouldn't need to make the unit max speed either, the battle would proceed normally, but after a certian amount of time, the treasure would become available to grab, in fact, you might want to make the tresure unit slower then normal, so that players have to make it to the area of the tresure, then fend off enemy attacks until it opens up.
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Post by: Asmo X on March 30, 2009, 11:49:49 am
That's actually not a bad idea. If you want more than 1 treasure box you might have to split your team up since the AI can go for boxes too.
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Post by: Smitson on March 30, 2009, 06:06:56 pm
Quote from: "Cheetah"That is some really good advice you gave Kokojo.

It is sad that this thread is so quiet, when in reality it should be one of the busiest on the forum.

Because people make new threads for their ideas instead.  This thread should really have more then 6 pages though. Anyways, i've started on my own patch that's going to have FF7 guys heavily involved in the story. Player jobs are going to remain relatively the same, but the AI is going get a HUGE boost, especially bosses and special jobs. and a brand new story.
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Post by: Cheetah on March 31, 2009, 12:13:44 am
I was thinking that the point of a boss rush mode or how I was interpreting the concept is that it would have little to no story, just gameplay. There is also lots of room to change game flow using Attack.out and event hacks. Though it is limiting due to not being able to edit in battle events and conditions all that thoroughly.
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Post by: philsov on March 31, 2009, 09:22:29 am
I'd just like to see a patch with a stricter class-based system -- something along the veins of fire emblem and final fantasy I.  Something like 6 initial class choices, and then linear progression with job level 8 prereqs (maybe even redefine level eight) leading out from there into their 2nd and 3rd teirs.
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Post by: Asmo X on March 31, 2009, 10:34:16 am
Quote from: "philsov"I'd just like to see a patch with a stricter class-based system -- something along the veins of fire emblem and final fantasy I.  Something like 6 initial class choices, and then linear progression with job level 8 prereqs (maybe even redefine level eight) leading out from there into their 2nd and 3rd teirs.

If I'm not missing something, couldn't you whip this up in 5 minutes?
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Post by: philsov on March 31, 2009, 12:08:42 pm
yes, but I'd also have to fiddle with skillsets and ENTD for a little bit.  And maybe do a few sprite changes.
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Post by: Cheetah on March 31, 2009, 01:03:16 pm
Well Philsov if you got the project started I don't think you would have much trouble finding support for it. Sounds like a pretty straight forward project.
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Post by: Kokojo on March 31, 2009, 01:16:46 pm
Smithson, i really can't comment on that.

Asmo, as much as i would like the boss pacth, i would much rather see COP get off the ground before doing anything, and i won't do it alone.

Philsov, yeah, you would need a full pacth, but FFT Emblem should be doable. Low damage, all around-evade, low health... Anything i think of can be recreated. Books do lighthing damage from afar. The only thing is the weapon Health itself.
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Post by: philsov on March 31, 2009, 01:44:23 pm
QuoteLow damage, all around-evade, low health... Anything i think of can be recreated. Books do lighthing damage from afar. The only thing is the weapon Health itself.

My primary focus was just the class system.  I suppose "more like FF1" would've been a better parellel, and afaik isn't CoP going to similar to what you described above anyways?
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Post by: Archael on March 31, 2009, 02:28:54 pm
CoP is going similar to Lancers being thrown in water

don't try to defile my CoP
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Post by: Vanya on March 31, 2009, 05:59:38 pm
I've been putting some thought into a more FF1 style of job progression, too.
I don't think it would be too difficult to execute either, but for my patch I was wondering how to prevent a unit from switching initial jobs once a path is chosen.
At least that's what I'd do if I was going to limit the game to the 4 light warriors.
The Alternative would be to have 6 light warriors with one job path each, but somehow force the player to only choose 4.
Any other ideas?
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Post by: philsov on March 31, 2009, 06:35:26 pm
I had thought to have initially placed light warriors with most contained job classes, but then I also wanted to have stacked parties (2x Fighter, 2x Red Mage, e.g.), which simply isn't an option without an open job wheel.
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Post by: Cheetah on March 31, 2009, 06:46:20 pm
Vanya: You could have all six characters/job in your party, but have every battle only allow 4 characters? That might not be exactly what you want, but it would work out pretty well. Or perhaps there is a way to limit how many people are allowed in the formation screen, have all the characters join after the first event but there would only be room for 4.

Oh oh oh I think I have a real solution. Using event instruction (I'm almost positive this is possible) you could fill up the formation screen with all but four spaces, then you have the option of having the 6 characters present but only room for four, then remove all the filler characters after the four main characters have been chosen. Hmm the only problem I foresee is that you are able to swap units if your party is full and it would show the formation screen with all your filler characters (but you could probably make them appear invisible and if they were guests I don't think you could have them removed).
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on March 31, 2009, 07:59:08 pm
also, to allow for stacked parties, you could have two units of each starter job, one male and one female (12 possible recruits is the max allowable I think, while still keeping all jobs evenly represented, since 3x job stacking would require 18 units, which is more then the max allowable on a single map)
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Post by: Vanya on March 31, 2009, 10:15:39 pm
@Cheetah: Thanks for the event instructions idea. I think that might be a good solution.
@Skip: I kinda like that idea, too. I have to weigh it against an open job wheel, though.
In addition, I'll raise job prerequisites to level 8 and increase the JP cost of each level. That will make it herder to get upgraded jobs before the end of Chapter 2. What would be really nice, though is if there were event instructions to unlock certain jobs after a specific event. Is that a possibility?
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Post by: ShadowX on April 01, 2009, 12:26:18 am
Hey everybody. I'm finally back after however long it's been since I last logged on. I have a lot of work done on my project and I should have at least a demo and some scene edits to show everyone after I get my sprites (sprites are still my weakness.)

Sorry if this seems like a waist of a post.
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Post by: Smitson on April 01, 2009, 01:29:32 am
Quote from: "ShadowX"Hey everybody. I'm finally back after however long it's been since I last logged on. I have a lot of work done on my project and I should have at least a demo and some scene edits to show everyone after I get my sprites (sprites are still my weakness.)

Sorry if this seems like a waist of a post.

It is indeed a waist of a post.


I'm just giving you a hard time  :wink:.
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Post by: Kaijyuu on April 01, 2009, 01:31:00 am
You'd think something with a waist would at least have an abdomen as well. I'm not seeing one, though.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 02, 2009, 09:51:30 am
@Vanya; Glad to be of help, that being said, I do like the idea of a semi-open job wheel as well, it would certainly be a lot simpler to implement, and the strict job and jp requirements for advancement would encourage players to focus a unit in a single job, rather then try and master them all. Are you going to be strictly limiting players to the 12 FFI jobs in this patch, or are you planing on implementing a few extra jobs to make use of the left over job slots?
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Post by: philsov on April 02, 2009, 12:30:25 pm
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"@Vanya; Glad to be of help, that being said, I do like the idea of a semi-open job wheel as well, it would certainly be a lot simpler to implement, and the strict job and jp requirements for advancement would encourage players to focus a unit in a single job, rather then try and master them all. Are you going to be strictly limiting players to the 12 FFI jobs in this patch, or are you planing on implementing a few extra jobs to make use of the left over job slots?

and in a similar vein, are there any sprites you'd like brewed up?  I'm interested to try my hand at spriting and would love to help out on your patch.
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Post by: Kaijyuu on April 02, 2009, 02:38:40 pm
Quite honestly, loose job advancement is one of my favorite parts of FFT. When I saw Advance had races that limited job choice, I almost screamed blasphemy. It's also why I think Tactics Ogre's job advancement systems are extremely boring and unintuitive.

More power to ya if that's something you'd be interested in. I doubt I'd play a patch that had a strict job advancement though, unless it had some redeeming quality.
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Post by: Vanya on April 02, 2009, 03:06:33 pm
@Skip: The plan is to have the player only be able to use the original jobs. And I think I can abuse the job requirements and ENTD settings to force certain units to only have access to certain jobs. Also, I want to let the enemies keep their original jobs.

@philsov: I haven't worked on any sprites yet. I welcome your help, though.

@Kaijyuu: I know what you mean about FFTA. And, no worries, I started this idea knowing it wouldn't appeal to everyone. I just want to get one of my ideas off the ground and finished. ^_^
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Post by: Vanya on April 02, 2009, 03:32:49 pm
On another note...

Here's the revised job list for my personal patch which still has no title. This is the one I mentioned in the "What western zodiac are you?" thread.

Mercenary: Initial generic job. Made from Squire. Has some less than honorable combat skills available.

Freelancer: Initial job for all units. Made from Chemist. You'll learn all the weapon skills from this job, and I'm trying to work it so that all units have all item skills learned by default.

Warrior: Made from Orator. Will have some basic combat skills similar to the old Squire.
-->req. Freelancer lv.2

Black Mage: Updated spell list.
-->req. Freelancer lv.2

Hunter: Made from Archer. Modeled after Hunter in FFTA/2.
-->req. Freelancer lv.3

Green Mage: Made from Mystic. Revision based on FF12i spells.
-->req. Freelancer lv.3

Medic: Made from Bard+Dancer. Based on FF5 Chemist.
-->req. Freelancer lv.4

White Mage: Updated spell list.
-->req. Freelancer lv.4

Knight: Revised skill set.
-->req. Warrior lv.4

Time Mage: Updated spell list.
-->req. Black Mage lv.5

Thief: Revised skill set.
-->req. Hunter lv.3

Geomancer: Revised spell list, plus MP cost.
-->req. Green Mage lv.4

Monk: Revised skill set.
-->req. Medic lv.5

Blue Mage: Made from Arithmetician. Will have a large number of support & movement skills to offset spells not being learned with JP.
-->req. While Mage lv.3

Mime: No changes.
-->req. Blue Mage lv.2

Samurai: Revised skill set. I'll hex edit all the katana to have 0% chance to break.
-->req. Monk lv.5
-->req. Knight lv.4

Ninja: Revised skill set. Based on Ninjutsu skills instead of just thrown items.
-->req. Monk lv.5
-->req. Thief lv.4

Dragoon Knight: Made from Dragoon. Based on FF11 dragoon. I might use some of the old Mystic spell effects to make mini dragon summons.
-->req. Knight lv.3
-->req. Blue Mage lv.3

Summoner: Revised spells. Based more on old-school spells. This will be the new ultimate mage job. Spells will all be very expensive, too.
-->req. Geomancer lv.8
-->req. Time Mage lv.8

Comments?
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Post by: Kokojo on April 02, 2009, 04:01:30 pm
Quote from: "Vanya"What would be really nice, though is if there were event instructions to unlock certain jobs after a specific event. Is that a possibility?

As far as i know, this is impossible, sorry.
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Post by: philsov on April 02, 2009, 04:16:55 pm
Quote from: "Kokojo"
Quote from: "Vanya"What would be really nice, though is if there were event instructions to unlock certain jobs after a specific event. Is that a possibility?

As far as i know, this is impossible, sorry.

But we are capable of replacing classes, no?  Akin to ramza's squire progression.
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Post by: Kokojo on April 02, 2009, 04:48:45 pm
Ohhh, good point you point out there...il investigate the matter personnaly when i can (IE demo out)
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Post by: Vanya on April 02, 2009, 05:07:22 pm
That is a good point. It should be pretty easy to use Ramza's job change routine to also change other units' jobs. That is provided there's enough space to extend the code.


BTW... I finished writing my job list for my personal patch. Comments, pls.
Title:
Post by: philsov on April 02, 2009, 05:38:35 pm
QuoteComments, pls.

Merc seems so... unnecessary.
Title:
Post by: Vanya on April 02, 2009, 09:23:08 pm
Who else would you be recruiting to fight battles?
It may be a moot point anyway since there's an ASM hack that can prevent the Soldier office from hiring out generics, and one that allows specials to go on errands. ^_^
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Post by: Verdeni on April 03, 2009, 03:58:12 am
I... BELIEVE this is where I post ideas.

Mine's very simple. I wanted to add a nongeneric that will join your party along with the very first generics after Gariland.

Basically, I made...

Basically this job has a totally new skillset, which replaces Tietra's, because her's was useless anyway...


Soul Collector


Descripts;

Job Descript: A warrior who has made a pact with the Dark,
choosing afterlife over death.

Skillset Descript: Anguish; Soulless Job command. Stalkers hunt their soul enriched prey, extracting their life essence.

Skills;

Thunder Anima; "Attack by unleashing a lightning spirit."
JP cost: 150
Range: 3 Radius: 1
Element: Lightning

Water Anima; "Attack by unleashing a water spirit."
JP cost: 200
Range: 3 Radius: 1
Element: Water

Ice Anima; "Attack by unleashing an ice spirit."
JP cost: 250
Range: 3 Radius: 1
Element: Ice

Wind Anima; "Attack by unleashing a wind spirit."
JP cost: 300
Range: 3 Radius: 1
Element: Wind

Blaster; "Attack by releasing luminous energy."
JP cost: 400
Range: 3 Radius: 1
Effect: Stone, Stop

Essence Reflux; "Bring death to the foe, reverting them to crystalline form."
JP cost: 200   (Low JP, Low hit_rate)
Range: 1, Vert. 0 Radius: 1
Effect: Crystal

Mantra Destroyer; "Channel dark energy to bring misfortune to the target."
JP cost: 800
Range: 4-dir. Radius: 5, Vert. 2
Effect: Blind, Confuse, Silence, Toad, Poison, Slow, Sleep[list=][/list]


Yes, the first ones are Monster skills. I thought it fit in well.


I'll delve into it more when I finally start editing storyline text.
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Post by: Vanya on April 03, 2009, 08:41:25 am
He seems a little too... bland. I think it would be better to give him more new unique skills instead of the enemy skills. That would be cooler. ^_^
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Post by: Verdeni on April 03, 2009, 08:51:34 am
Very true, but I don't know which ones to use as a base, because you have to take skills away to add new ones. ><
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Post by: philsov on April 03, 2009, 09:15:09 am
Quote from: "Vanya"Who else would you be recruiting to fight battles?

Freelancers?
Title:
Post by: Archael on April 03, 2009, 01:14:38 pm
Quote from: "FFMaster"Hard Mode patch

Original topic
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2572 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2572)

QuoteI've been thinking about this for a little while now. The patch is fairly hard right now, but I want to push difficulty to its limits (without it being impossible). Of course the battles at the start will be easier than the ones in Chapter 4, but almost all battles will have a difficulty increase.


What I am thinking
-"Hard Mode" starts from Dorter Trade City
-Enemy have more levels, and better R/S/M than they have right now
-Team combo's will be used by the enemy (Bard + MP Switch and strategies like that)
-More special units (White Knights, Lune Knights, Heaven/Hell Knights, etc.) will be in battles
-More rare equipment will be on enemies (some stealable, some not)
-Better Brave/Faith (not random) for all enemies
-Monsters/generics will be mixed into story battles


I just want to know if there would be enough people willing to play this kind of patch.

Right now, I am planning to use 1.3 as a base, with major edits.

Suggestions/ideas appeciated. Posting here since I don't want to further clutter the New Projects section.


HEY

what happened to this?

I'd be willing to work on HAAAAAAAAARD HARD HARD IWBTG type patch over the summer

I do all the bitch work!
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Post by: Vanya on April 03, 2009, 01:19:53 pm
Quote from: "philsov"
Quote from: "Vanya"Who else would you be recruiting to fight battles?

Freelancers?

Already got those. They are the replacement for Chemists. They give you all the Item skills for free and have all the "Equip X Weapon" skills to learn.
Title:
Post by: philsov on April 03, 2009, 01:26:54 pm
Quote from: "Vanya"
Quote from: "philsov"
Quote from: "Vanya"Who else would you be recruiting to fight battles?

Freelancers?

Already got those. They are the replacement for Chemists. They give you all the Item skills for free and have all the "Equip X Weapon" skills to learn.

So does the Merc have some hellaciously awesome equipment options/abilities?  Otherwise, my first action after hiring a Merc from the soldier office is to make them a freelancer and never look back or touch the class.  Kinda like the standard squire, but at least there was incentive to be a squire to unlock Knight/archer and then mime.
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Post by: VincentCraven on April 03, 2009, 03:52:34 pm
Quote from: "Voldemort"HEY

what happened to this?

I'd be willing to work on HAAAAAAAAARD HARD HARD IWBTG type patch over the summer

I do all the bitch work!


That patch scares me.
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Post by: FFMaster on April 03, 2009, 03:54:52 pm
And you are right to be scared. I'm planning to have 1HP wall units in the story battle, but the patch is still in the works. Right now, I am still debating whether to use 1.3 or vanilla as a base.
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Post by: Vanya on April 03, 2009, 03:57:07 pm
QuoteSo does the Merc have some hellaciously awesome equipment options/abilities? Otherwise, my first action after hiring a Merc from the soldier office is to make them a freelancer and never look back or touch the class. Kinda like the standard squire, but at least there was incentive to be a squire to unlock Knight/archer and then mime.

I was planning on giving them interesting and useful skills. But, like I said I might not need to do it that way at all. I'd really rather not have any generics at all or just one so as not to waste the job slot.... Then I'd be able to have a whole slew of new special units. What was the max number of units for the PSX again? 16?
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Post by: philsov on April 03, 2009, 04:01:25 pm
yup.  But if you're going that route don't forget, for the love of god, to de-randomize their br/fa.
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Post by: Vanya on April 03, 2009, 04:24:58 pm
Indeed. That would be phailyur. I've decided, btw to split my main hack into smaller hacks. Besides making it modular, it'll make it easier to focus on one section at a time.
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Post by: Archael on April 03, 2009, 05:07:51 pm
Quote from: "FFMaster"I am still debating whether to use 1.3 or vanilla as a base.

it doesn't matter

patch would need to be so heavily altered I really don't think it matters

1 HP wall units doesn't make too much sense

if by 1 HP wall you mean:

1) a unit that has 1 HP and real wall status (no asm) then it is unkillable, but you can give it dispose or a worker 8 skill, which would make it kill itself in one move

or

2) a unit that has 1 HP and an ASM wall status, in which case they'd die in one hit
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Post by: philsov on April 03, 2009, 05:14:18 pm
3) Units with wall status asm'd to recieve 1 damage.  Imagine Queklain like that.

QuoteI am still debating whether to use 1.3 or vanilla as a base.

1.3.  Far less changes to input, class/ability wise.
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Post by: Archael on April 03, 2009, 05:18:13 pm
Quote from: "philsov"3) Units with wall status asm'd to recieve 1 damage.  Imagine Queklain like that.

QuoteI am still debating whether to use 1.3 or vanilla as a base.

1.3.  Far less changes to input, class/ability wise.


ohhhh ok I get it

1 HP ASM Wall units

I thought he meant Wall units with 1 HP
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Post by: FFMaster on April 03, 2009, 05:28:30 pm
Sorry. I should have made myself clear. I meant units with the 1 HP wall hack, like philsov said.
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Post by: Archael on April 03, 2009, 09:46:14 pm
Quote from: "FFMaster"Sorry. I should have made myself clear. I meant units with the 1 HP wall hack, like philsov said.

let me know if you need any help from me

it will be interesting to see how creatively difficult each and every battle can be made

obligatory: final boss is unkillable

also, name it CockBlocktics
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Post by: FFMaster on April 03, 2009, 10:07:49 pm
Ok. I'm still in the middle of planning what should/should not be in the game.

Invite is completely useless, thats for sure. Units will be immortal flagged at least if they have special skillsets/items (which is pretty much necessary for this kind of patch, unless I think of something else). This also applies for Charm, Petrify and a lot of other spells. Unless there is another way around, it looks like Oracle is going to be one of the worst classes.

Final boss will be like END in 1.3. People have seen the ending already, they don't need to see it again.

Right now, Dorter Trade Slums is very hard. If you don't have a decent setup, you won't get past them. The Engineer up the roof will rape you if you don't kill him quick. I won't give too much more. But the Engineer and the White Knight will destroy you if you don't get the battle in control in the first few turns.

PS. I need help editting AI stance. I want some units to run, and some to protect certain key members in battles.

EDIT - All questions answered. A test battle is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWQ4gDfLXHo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWQ4gDfLXHo)
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 04, 2009, 12:11:17 am
Verdeni, perhaps if you fleshed out what and who the character is more, it would help.  Just what did he obtain from the pact?  A few minor abilities and two potentially nasty ones?  What did he (or she) sacrifice for them?  And if it is about extracting life force, why aren't there more abilities in there that effect the life force rather than slinging elemental ectoplasm?

Quote from: "Voldemort"obligatory: final boss is unkillable

also, name it CockBlocktics
Awesome and amusing.  At least make it so that people will be fooled into thinking it is beatable.
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Post by: Celdia on April 04, 2009, 06:15:04 am
Quote from: "Voldemort"obligatory: final boss is unkillable

also, name it CockBlocktics
This would certainly be one way out of doing and ending sequence of any kind.
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Post by: Sephirot24 on April 04, 2009, 01:32:58 pm
Quote from: "FFMaster"Ok. I'm still in the middle of planning what should/should not be in the game.

Invite is completely useless, thats for sure. Units will be immortal flagged at least if they have special skillsets/items (which is pretty much necessary for this kind of patch, unless I think of something else). This also applies for Charm, Petrify and a lot of other spells. Unless there is another way around, it looks like Oracle is going to be one of the worst classes.

Final boss will be like END in 1.3. People have seen the ending already, they don't need to see it again.

Right now, Dorter Trade Slums is very hard. If you don't have a decent setup, you won't get past them. The Engineer up the roof will rape you if you don't kill him quick. I won't give too much more. But the Engineer and the White Knight will destroy you if you don't get the battle in control in the first few turns.

PS. I need help editting AI stance. I want some units to run, and some to protect certain key members in battles.

EDIT - All questions answered. A test battle is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWQ4gDfLXHo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWQ4gDfLXHo)

Looks very interesting, and uber hard. I have 2 things to say though:

1) I don't support 1HP wall hack. Think about how much would it take if enemies got 50+ HP and 1HP wall hack. I think it's ok if, say, you give it to bosses / minor bosses. (i.e. Gafgarion, Wiegraf, etc). But if every attack does no more that 1HP dmg, you have to hit him a number of times equal to it's max HP, and I think that even thinking about between 50 and 100 HP is too much. Even worse if they are able to heal (or have some minion that can).

2) I suggest minor to medium rehaul for jobs that will be render useless. Look at 1.3, with all the changes made every class has something to stand by its own ('cept Squires). If, like you say, most enemies will be immune to Bad status effects, you'll have to change the Oracle accordingly IMO. If you don't, it'll be as if it's not in the class roster anymore, just a waste of space.
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Post by: Archael on April 04, 2009, 01:35:29 pm
Quote from: "Sephirot24"2) I suggest minor to medium rehaul for jobs that will be render useless. Look at 1.3, with all the changes made every class has something to stand by its own ('cept Squires). If, like you say, most enemies will be immune to Bad status effects, you'll have to change the Oracle accordingly IMO. If you don't, it'll be as if it's not in the class roster anymore, just a waste of space.

This isn't the "let's make Oracle useful patch"

it's a hard mode patch

if Oracles don't work well in the hard mode patch, don't use them
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Post by: Sephirot24 on April 04, 2009, 01:52:51 pm
Quote from: "Voldemort"
Quote from: "Sephirot24"2) I suggest minor to medium rehaul for jobs that will be render useless. Look at 1.3, with all the changes made every class has something to stand by its own ('cept Squires). If, like you say, most enemies will be immune to Bad status effects, you'll have to change the Oracle accordingly IMO. If you don't, it'll be as if it's not in the class roster anymore, just a waste of space.

This isn't the "let's make Oracle useful patch"

it's a hard mode patch

if Oracles don't work well in the hard mode patch, don't use them

But think about it. As more and more abilities / items / classes start getting useless, you'll have a lot less variety, and the game will become just a "Use X class with Y ability and Z equips, get lucky, win battle, repeat." And if only 1 or 2 classes / a few abilities / items are render useless, then it's quite easy to fix because you don't have to change pretty much anything..
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on April 04, 2009, 01:56:07 pm
Quote from: "Sephirot24"But think about it. As more and more abilities / items / classes start getting useless, you'll have a lot less variety, and the game will become just a "Use X class with Y ability and Z equips, get lucky, win battle, repeat." And if only 1 or 2 classes / a few abilities / items are render useless, then it's quite easy to fix because you don't have to change pretty much anything..
This isn't a "Make every class useful patch"

It's a Hardcore mode patch

If you don't like using one class to win, then don't use them
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Post by: Sephirot24 on April 04, 2009, 02:16:14 pm
Ok.. 2vs1. Allright, it's a hardcore patch.

Don't let any special join your party.
No elixirs for the player.
Add at least one more enemy in each story battle (is it posible?).
Double the JP cost for all abilities (although this may fuck up the AI now that I think about it).
Make the MP cost of abilities higher.
Elemental, Summons and Draw Out are now Evadable (Magical Ev).
You can't Stat break (or ruins now lower 1 or 2 points, instead of 3)
Speed save now adds Haste.
At least half the enemies in each battle have DU / MDU / AU / MAU / Concentrate.
Make Job requirements higher.
No invite / charm.
Train has only BR% chance of inviting criticaled monster.
Secret Hunt has only BR% chance of poaching monster.
Enemies have Innate: Item.
Undead always revive (100% chance).
No Cursed Ring.
Zombie can only be cast on enemies.
Undead monsters cannot be "Trained".
Faith can only be cast on allies.
Innocent can only be cast on enemies.
Use more special classes (White knights, Engineers, Knight Blades, Assassins, Princess, etc).
Some enemies have Teleport 2.

That's all I can think about for now...

EDIT:

You can't inflict allies with Death Sentence.
You can't inflict allies with Confuse.
Death Sentence / Crystalize / Boxilize count reduced to 2 / 1 for the player.
Recruiting people cost more money.
Recruited peoples BR and FA have a max cap of 60.
Early equipment has also downsides (i.e. Leather cap has HP+5 and MP-5). This one is more for the early game than anything, as you can give the PC better equips.
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Post by: Smitson on April 04, 2009, 02:27:25 pm
More 1 on 1's! Those are probably the funnest fights  :P.
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Post by: Havermayer on April 04, 2009, 05:37:03 pm
Multiplayer patch.  Please someone do it!

:D
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Post by: VincentCraven on April 04, 2009, 05:39:45 pm
no u
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Post by: FFMaster on April 04, 2009, 06:10:03 pm
Don't worry too much Sephirot24. Arch is right, its a hard mode patch, and if I worry about trying to make all classes useful, it won't work.

However, there will be times when Oracle is useful, they just won't be as strong as they were before. Btw, the Sand Rat Cellar is very interesting right now. Don't worry too much about 1 HP Wall. That will come much later in the game.
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Post by: Verdeni on April 04, 2009, 07:26:11 pm
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Verdeni, perhaps if you fleshed out what and who the character is more, it would help.  Just what did he obtain from the pact?  A few minor abilities and two potentially nasty ones?  What did he (or she) sacrifice for them?  And if it is about extracting life force, why aren't there more abilities in there that effect the life force rather than slinging elemental ectoplasm?

Quote from: "Voldemort"obligatory: final boss is unkillable

also, name it CockBlocktics
Awesome and amusing.  At least make it so that people will be fooled into thinking it is beatable.

I've actually been working on that a little more ever since Vanya said their skillset was diverse enough.

I'll be posting the new skills and description later, once I finish it up.

I've edited "Mantra Destroyer", it n ow hits with an effect after the attack every time, Thus making the JP cost 1200.

Also, The soul collector NPC is a she, lol.  8)
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on April 04, 2009, 10:15:07 pm
Quote from: "Sephirot24"Ok.. 2vs1. Allright, it's a hardcore patch.

Don't let any special join your party.
No elixirs for the player.
Add at least one more enemy in each story battle (is it posible?).
Double the JP cost for all abilities (although this may fuck up the AI now that I think about it).
Make the MP cost of abilities higher.
Elemental, Summons and Draw Out are now Evadable (Magical Ev).
You can't Stat break (or ruins now lower 1 or 2 points, instead of 3)
Speed save now adds Haste.
At least half the enemies in each battle have DU / MDU / AU / MAU / Concentrate.
Make Job requirements higher.
No invite / charm.
Train has only BR% chance of inviting criticaled monster.
Secret Hunt has only BR% chance of poaching monster.
Enemies have Innate: Item.
Undead always revive (100% chance).
No Cursed Ring.
Zombie can only be cast on enemies.
Undead monsters cannot be "Trained".
Faith can only be cast on allies.
Innocent can only be cast on enemies.
Use more special classes (White knights, Engineers, Knight Blades, Assassins, Princess, etc).
Some enemies have Teleport 2.

That's all I can think about for now...

EDIT:

You can't inflict allies with Death Sentence.
You can't inflict allies with Confuse.
Death Sentence / Crystalize / Boxilize count reduced to 2 / 1 for the player.
Recruiting people cost more money.
Recruited peoples BR and FA have a max cap of 60.
Early equipment has also downsides (i.e. Leather cap has HP+5 and MP-5). This one is more for the early game than anything, as you can give the PC better equips.

Stat break skills now break the USER'S stats
Death sentence is now Death, and can't target enemies
No recruiting
Wall is back to original status
Self Destruct does not hit bombs
Monsters have even better stats
No random battles
ALL ENEMIES HAVE 100 BRAVE/FAITH
Two handed Stone gunners in each map

The list goes on and on...
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Post by: Sephirot24 on April 04, 2009, 10:52:03 pm
Well.. of all those ideas, some will prove very useful XD
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Post by: Aquilae on April 04, 2009, 11:44:24 pm
- Some enemies have 1 HP Wall
- Def UP / MDef UP is common
- More special classes being used by the enemy
- Some enemies Br is 100 (Hamedo, Damage Split etc.)
- Some monsters are immune to status such as Berserk and Poison
- No changes of classes or skills other than what is already done in the 1.3 patch

Its 1.3 Hard Mode, not 1.4. I think these should be all the changes that will take place in battles, it will make it harder but keep the feel of 1.3.
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Post by: Archael on April 04, 2009, 11:46:18 pm
100% Blade Grasp on many Immortal Flagged Enemies (Casters)

hooray
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Post by: Oblivion on April 07, 2009, 01:22:41 am
i think a patch where ramza chose the path that argath wanted him to choose. basically he agrees with argath, kills milueda in the 1st fight. and kicks delita out who becomes the main antagonist of the game and hates ramza (duh).
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Post by: jimmyjw88 on April 07, 2009, 02:09:54 am
Is there a way to make a skill that reduce the target's HP to 1?
Title:
Post by: boomkick on April 07, 2009, 02:24:33 am
Make every skillset have All-Ultima. And make it do 1 damage.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 07, 2009, 08:51:15 am
@Jimmy
the Gravi 2 spell already does this in vannila, its just that the bosses that have it almost never cast it
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Post by: philsov on April 07, 2009, 09:11:44 am
Quote from: "jimmyjw88"Is there a way to make a skill that reduce the target's HP to 1?

You can make a skill do 99% of their max HP damage.  I think gravi2 is 95% atm, but those sort of variables are easily toggled in fftpatcher.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 07, 2009, 09:20:19 am
actually Gravi 2 has a specific formula that deals damage equal to TarCurHP -1 (formula 17 in FFTPatcher)
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Post by: jimmyjw88 on April 07, 2009, 10:37:43 am
Oh...wait...which is vanilla patch?
Is it v1.3?
So meaning I just need to use Gravi2?
And philsov, "make a skill do 99% of their max HP damage"....is there such formula?
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 07, 2009, 10:56:42 am
vanilla is FFT with no patches or changes applied, gravi 2 uses formula 17 in the patcher, it reduces a target's hp to exactly 1, unless they are already at 1hp, in which case does nothing. what philsov was talking about is using formula 9 (demi, demi 2) or formula 53 (Hurricaine) set to reduce the target's hp by 99% of the max.
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Post by: jimmyjw88 on April 07, 2009, 11:38:33 pm
Ah...i see.
Kk. Thanks alot ^^
By the way, do you think such skill is overpowered?
Title:
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 08, 2009, 07:34:22 am
depends on a lot of factors, such as the range, ct, mp cost, and accuracy. Its certainly stronger then the Death spell, and would absolutely murder Lucavi unless the formula also accecpts elemental flags so they could be made immune (i'm not sure if it does, I know formulas 9 and 53 do, though)
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Post by: Archael on April 08, 2009, 10:16:07 pm
Name Suggestions for FFMaster Hard Mode Patch

1.3: (if you're still planning to have it do anything with 1.3, else remove 1.3)

I Wanna Be The Tactician

I Wanna Be The Heretic

I Wanna Be The 999

I Wanna Be The Ramza

I Wanna Be The Thundergod

I Wanna Be The FFTVet
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Post by: philsov on April 09, 2009, 10:04:21 am
QuoteI Wanna Be The Thundergod
Title:
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 09, 2009, 10:19:59 am
second'ed on I Wanna Be The Thundergod
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Post by: Kokojo on April 09, 2009, 12:55:33 pm
I wanna be the FFmaster
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Post by: LastingDawn on April 09, 2009, 01:37:19 pm
I personally like I Wanna Be The Heretic.
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Post by: Sephirot24 on April 09, 2009, 01:43:50 pm
Yeah. Heretic sounds good.

Maybe something like Master or Overlord?
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Post by: DarthPaul on April 09, 2009, 02:07:23 pm
"I wanna be the Twat"


In all seriousness though I Wanna Be The Thundergod.
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Post by: VincentCraven on April 09, 2009, 02:26:15 pm
I don't like "I wanna be X" format.

FFT Hard Mode.  Simple and descriptive.
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Post by: DarthPaul on April 09, 2009, 02:57:03 pm
Or FFTEXTREME
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on April 09, 2009, 03:08:13 pm
I Wanna Be The Zodiac
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Post by: DarthPaul on April 09, 2009, 03:15:00 pm
FFT: Will Kick Your Ass!
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 09, 2009, 11:38:41 pm
I Wanna Be the Lucavi

Hey, you're ultimately after them, right?
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Post by: Shade on April 10, 2009, 12:48:29 pm
Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Or FFTEXTREME

That has been made.
If you search it from youtube you can find it.
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Post by: Redux on April 10, 2009, 02:08:57 pm
Quote from: "philsov"
QuoteI Wanna Be The Thundergod
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Post by: Oblivion on April 13, 2009, 11:54:35 am
I Wanna Be The 999
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Post by: Havermayer on April 20, 2009, 05:01:27 pm
Could we get a Vagrant Story patch section?  I've always wanted to mess around with that game.  

If you build it (the forum section), they will come!
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Post by: Oblivion on April 21, 2009, 04:21:41 am
here's an idea we should do a patch with a bunch of us as the characters. i could come up with a story if anyone agrees with this
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Post by: MagiTek on April 21, 2009, 07:04:35 pm
That would be an idea, anybody that contributes their sprite could be in it. With all the friendship triangle,s who knows how complicated the story could get. God knows Voldemort or I would be the badguy :3
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Post by: Vanya on April 21, 2009, 08:50:28 pm
Voldemort is a zodiac brave in me expansion patch. So are Zozma, Celdia, Asmo, Dominic, and Philsov. ^_^
Title:
Post by: DarthPaul on April 21, 2009, 09:07:21 pm
Quote from: "ehrgeiz20"here's an idea we should do a patch with a bunch of us as the characters. i could come up with a story if anyone agrees with this


I started mulling this around when I was new here. Now I think we have just the characters necessary to pull it off.
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Post by: dwib on April 21, 2009, 09:15:05 pm
i am going to want a character in this undertaking!
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Post by: Kaijyuu on April 21, 2009, 11:37:41 pm
I would be an easily ignored NPC.
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Post by: Dome on April 22, 2009, 02:54:43 am
Quote from: "ehrgeiz20"here's an idea we should do a patch with a bunch of us as the characters. i could come up with a story if anyone agrees with this
I wanna be a mage that anyone want dead because is strong and stupid xD
Title:
Post by: Oblivion on April 22, 2009, 05:18:02 am
so you guys agree?
cool!
what shall it be called?
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Post by: VincentCraven on April 22, 2009, 09:11:55 am
Final Fantasy Tactics: Hacktics spoof
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Post by: DarthPaul on April 22, 2009, 09:47:29 am
FFT: Oh not these guys again.
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Post by: Dome on April 22, 2009, 11:24:01 am
FFT Hacktics revenge
Or
FFT the Voldemort ownage xD
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Post by: DarthPaul on April 22, 2009, 11:29:43 am
FFT I don't wanna be the Dome.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 22, 2009, 03:04:01 pm
FFT: The Militant Menagerie

Hm...  FFT:TMM
Fun.
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Post by: Dome on April 22, 2009, 03:06:23 pm
Quote from: "ph33rb0t"FFT I don't wanna be the Dome.
I WANNA BE THE GUY!!!! (explode in red pixels xD)
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Post by: Vanya on April 22, 2009, 04:10:25 pm
Final Fantasy )-(4¢|{+!¢$

No need for a sub.
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Post by: Oblivion on April 22, 2009, 04:38:28 pm
lol. funny titles. a menagerie is a zoo right? that makes it more funny.

here's what i got for a story (so far):

a bunch of us are apart of an organization/guild called Guild A (placeholder name). one day Guild A's main headquarters is attacked by another organization/guild called Guild B (placeholder name). Guild A tries its best to defend itself from the onslaught of Guild A, but fails and is forced to retreat from the base. Lots of Guild A's members are either wounded, missing, or dead. a few are left behind at the base becuase they could escape for various reasons and are either left in the rubble or captured by Guild B. A member of Guild A who wasnt in the battle (the main character) appears at the main headquarters and searches around for survivors. he finds one person (me!) struggling to stay alive. The main character than heals me and i explain to him what happened. we decide to go out and find the other members that escaped so they could regroup and figure out why Guild B attacked them. some of the missing members/captured members became members of Guild B.

whew... that was a mouth full.
so what do you think.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 22, 2009, 04:43:51 pm
I think it needs to be a hell of a lot crazier than that.  Chaos is an ideal word for what this likely should be.

This definition of menagerie really works:
3.   an unusual and varied group of people.
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Post by: KazeKasano on April 22, 2009, 04:47:04 pm
I like how it starts.
I assume this is to be filled with various 1337 and lolspeaks?
And also a whole ton of trolling?
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 22, 2009, 04:50:30 pm
Nah, if you're using members of this forum, then each character should act and speak like the one they are named after.  It would be different for each one.
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Post by: Dome on April 22, 2009, 05:07:45 pm
I wanna be a stupid sorceror
"Hi guys...who will be the dumbass of today?" xD
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Post by: Oblivion on April 22, 2009, 05:58:26 pm
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Nah, if you're using members of this forum, then each character should act and speak like the one they are named after.  It would be different for each one.
agreed. also the person's sprite would be there avatar. but that just a suggestion.
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Post by: Oblivion on April 22, 2009, 06:04:31 pm
Quote from: "Dome"I wanna be a stupid sorceror
"Hi guys...who will be the dumbass of today?" xD
do you still wanna die?

EDIT:
ohhhhhhh!
i get what you mean!
you wanna be a boss

i have that noted
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Post by: Oblivion on April 22, 2009, 06:05:32 pm
who should the main character be?
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Post by: Dome on April 22, 2009, 06:24:18 pm
Quote from: "ehrgeiz20"
Quote from: "Dome"I wanna be a stupid sorceror
"Hi guys...who will be the dumbass of today?" xD
do you still wanna die?

EDIT:
ohhhhhhh!
i get what you mean!
you wanna be a boss

i have that noted
Maybe someone like meliadoul: Enemy at the beginning, optional recruit later xD
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 22, 2009, 06:33:44 pm
Either Smash for being way too awesome or Voldemort for just being Voldemort.  ...or Zodiac.  Zodiac would be better as some sort of behind the scenes puppet master character though.  Voldemort could play any badass role, probably, even an enemy boss.  Or even final boss.
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Post by: Oblivion on April 22, 2009, 09:42:30 pm
smash
Voldemort
zodiac

any other suggestions for the main character?
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Post by: dwib on April 23, 2009, 02:08:48 am
Voldemort no doubt
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Post by: Oblivion on April 23, 2009, 04:24:00 am
smash
Voldemort (x2)
zodiac

two votes for arch.
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Post by: Redux on April 23, 2009, 06:52:51 am
Voldemort as either main villian or protagonist.
And damn that would mean im izlude in this game =)
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Post by: Sa Ki Ren on April 23, 2009, 09:29:43 am
Ok so I've been lurking for a while and finally decided to step out. The basic purpose is to re-mesh all the classes into 12 tribute classes to the Original Final Fantasy.

The plan atm is to:
Rename all classes....Done
Rename Skills...........Want to ask a question first.
Tweak Old Skills........50%
Create New Skills......30%
Sprite Replacement...Can wait for now.
Fix ENTD...................hehehe -_-'

The classes are:
Fighter
Black Mage
White Mage
Theif
Black Belt (May go back to Monk for this one.)
Red Mage
Knight
Wizard (Black Wizard)
Priest (White Wizard)
Ninja (May switch to Rogue)
Master
Sorcerer (Red Wizard)

Anyways my pre-release question is, in the theme of an 8-bit tribute, should I rename all the spells according to the old 4 letter limitation or would that be too annoying to read?
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Post by: philsov on April 23, 2009, 09:54:01 am
As far as namings go, ALLCAPS4CHARACTER is annoying.  You can get 5 or 6 character names and still retain the pronunciation.  

AFIR -> A-Fire
FIR3 -> Fire 3
LIF2 -> Life 2

Just don't go fancy.  Nuke should still be nuke, not flare.

Regarding the ENTD, are you planning more monster-based storyline and random battles in the vein of FF1?

Will Queklain / Velius / Zelera / Andramelk have actions similar to Lich / Kary / Kraken / Tiamat?  Can enemy Gaf be the dark elf?  Hash warmech?  Or, dare I suggest, Algus something garland-like?  I admit there's a few holes with this scheme (like what to do with Shrine Knights and Elmdor, probably better to keep the FFT universe with 8 bit heros.  dunno).

Are you planning any action abilities for Fi/Th/BB/Ma?  Will there be any R/S/M at all?
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Post by: Sa Ki Ren on April 23, 2009, 10:19:32 am
Lets see.
Thanks for the response to the naming issue. I believe I'll go full names in menu and short names in battle.

As for the random battle question. I would most likely set up some areas to have mostly Human or Monster encounters depending on the location.

The Lich/Kary/Kraken/Tiamat tie in I hadn't thought of yet though seeing as how I'm re-assigning ALL the abilities from the ground up, the issue would eventually arise. Given the play out of the story, wouldn't Alma be Garland though? Rofl.
 
Yes for R/S/M and as for action commands Theif is pretty much set. I may make a Snatch ability that randomly steals a piece of equipment. And as for Fi/BB, their skill sets are whats giving me the most trouble atm. I already have the skill sets for the magic classes done.

Maybe once I finish this I will attempt a more daring translation and maybe even just remake the game.

Also due to size constraints of the skill sets I combo/knocked some of the spells from FF

And one more foot note. There are couple tributes to 8-bit theater as well.
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Post by: Oblivion on April 23, 2009, 10:19:59 am
oh who else wants to be apart of this lets start a list.
the more the merrier
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Post by: Asmo X on April 23, 2009, 10:23:12 am
It's a pretty shitty idea dude. Play FFT, but with a bunch of no-names from the internet mary-sueing themselves into the game. WOOOO. I can't contain my excitement!
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Post by: Dome on April 23, 2009, 10:34:11 am
Quote from: "Asmo X"It's a pretty shitty idea dude. Play FFT, but with a bunch of no-names from the internet mary-sueing themselves into the game. WOOOO. I can't contain my excitement!
I suppose Asmo doesn't want to be in the patch xD
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Post by: Oblivion on April 23, 2009, 10:34:46 am
Quote from: "Asmo X"It's a pretty shitty idea dude. Play FFT, but with a bunch of no-names from the internet mary-sueing themselves into the game. WOOOO. I can't contain my excitement!

i had feeling someone would disagree...
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Post by: Oblivion on April 23, 2009, 10:37:03 am
Quote from: "Dome"
Quote from: "Asmo X"It's a pretty shitty idea dude. Play FFT, but with a bunch of no-names from the internet mary-sueing themselves into the game. WOOOO. I can't contain my excitement!
I suppose Asmo doesn't want to be in the patch xD

suppose so.
i was hoping he would want to be in. he'd make a great superboss!
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 23, 2009, 02:19:06 pm
QuoteIt's a pretty shitty idea dude. Play FFT, but with a bunch of no-names from the internet mary-sueing themselves into the game. WOOOO. I can't contain my excitement!
My hopes are on a comedic satire.  

As long as it is one, I would like to be a part.  The moment it is serious, I'd want out.  The gameplay can be serious.  The story should be ridiculous.



QuoteAnd one more foot note. There are couple tributes to 8-bit theater as well.
Make Red Wizard's most powerful spell Ice 9.  Only make up to [Element] 3 or 4 for everything with Ice 9 being the only exception.  I at least would find it amusing.
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Post by: DarthPaul on April 23, 2009, 03:06:50 pm
Asmo the way I see it this is not really a patch to advertise but more along the lines of a hacktics lolpatch.

Just something for us to enjoy for laughs and what not.
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Post by: Dome on April 23, 2009, 03:12:36 pm
Yeah, we could just replace most of the special character with someone of us xD
And change some dialogue-skillset
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on April 24, 2009, 12:14:48 am
Same as Silvas. As long as the story and dialogue is lol, I'm in!

We each replace a special character, come up with some dialogue for us, and make our own skillsets!
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Post by: MagiTek on April 24, 2009, 05:41:47 pm
My vote is Zodiac, he IS admin after all.
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Post by: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 25, 2009, 09:49:56 pm
A patch set in an Ivalice/Tactics Ogre -ish world.  About a poor, isolated government's fight against the fantasy equivalent of narcos.  

The gov't creates special squad-sized units made up of local militiamen, mercenaries, and veteran soldiers.  

Their goal is to gather information on the narcos, monitor their crops (or whatever their drugs are... they could be dilithium crystals for all I know so far), provide security for the locals and for the urbanites who are building infrastructure and providing services to the poor locals (part of an effort to isolate the narcos socially and politically), and provide limited medical and transportation services to out of reach areas.

These squads must sometimes deal with corruption, hate from the locals (often justified.  What would you do if a bunch of strangers stopped and searched every vehicle on the road for no reason apparent to you?), poverty, ignorance, fear, and assholes in the squads.


EDITED
Now that I think about it, I forgot to include foreign states sponsoring either the narcos or the governments fight against them.  The narcos could use the foreign gov'ts funding as an excuse for their actions, and declare themselves "patriots" fighting the imperialist pigs/dogs/americans.  And the Narcos could also be recieving aid, and not to mention money from paying customers, from the america-clone.  And I could have the typical moronic american responses to the drug trade.  Actions like crop destruction/guided missiles/naval bombardment, that treat the symptom, the drug trade, but not the disease, poverty.
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Post by: Oblivion on April 29, 2009, 12:47:39 am
interesting ^
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Post by: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 29, 2009, 08:02:40 pm
One part modern colombia/mexico counter-insurgency against the narcos, one part magnificent seven, one part seven samurai, one part pacific theatre WW2, one part wars in iraq/afghanistan/vietnam, 7 parts FFT.
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on April 29, 2009, 10:12:31 pm
*is glad the topic took off*

Maybe I'll actually get around to working on some of the stuff floating around in my head one day. But for now...

*goes back to reading the other ideas*
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on April 30, 2009, 01:07:58 am
The exact opposite of Call of Power, which is based on low damage and hp, a patch based on lots of damage and high ass stats. Currently an idea in my head, want to do text edits to make the story comedic, which should fit the ridiculousness of the gameplay.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on April 30, 2009, 02:19:43 am
Sounds easy enough.  Just mimic DBZ at every opportunity.
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Post by: Oblivion on May 01, 2009, 10:41:11 am
I've begun to work on a patch that changes the jobs around in order to experiment with something new. Here's what I've got for my Ranger job.

Job Name: Ranger (Replacing Archer Job)
Skillset: Survival (Replacing Aim Command)
HP Growth: 11
HP Multiplier: 100
MP Growth: 16
MP Multiplier: 65
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 45
PA Multiplier: 110
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 80
Move: 4
Jump: 4
C-Ev%: 10
Innate: Beastmaster
Innate: Poach
Innate: Tame

Equipment:
Weapons: Knife, Gun, Crossbow, Bow
Armor: Hat, Clothing, Robe,
Accessories: Shoes, Armguard, Ring, Armlet, Cloak
Can equip shields?: Yes

Actions:
Charge (Aim +10) - Charging
JP Cost: 750
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Reaction:

Support:
Beastmaster (Removed from Squire)
Concentration
Poach (Removed from Thief)
Tame (Removed from Orator)

Movement:



I need some suggestions for action, reaction and movement abilities if anyone wants to help.
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Post by: Vanya on May 01, 2009, 01:34:08 pm
Look at FFTA/2 Archer/Hunter/Sniper they have lots of options to work with.
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Post by: FFMaster on May 04, 2009, 08:14:14 am
Anyone willing to make a patch focused on AI tournaments? Balance out abilities to make it competitive in a 4v4 environment.

Well, it sounded good in my head...
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Post by: Kourama on May 04, 2009, 11:08:33 am
ehrgeiz20 my patch I posted I already changed my archer and called it ranger too. I'm gonna post in the same format you did and show you what I did with my ranger. Feel free to use any ideas I had on your ranger as well.

Job Name: Ranger (Replacing Archer Job)
Skillset: Hunting (Replacing Aim Command)
HP Growth: 11
HP Multiplier: 100
MP Growth: 16
MP Multiplier: 65
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 110
PA Growth: 45
PA Multiplier: 110
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 80
Move: 3
Jump: 4
C-Ev%: 10
Innate: Poach
Innate: Move-Find Item
Innate: Gained JP Up (all generic jobs have this though in my patch)

Equipment:
Weapons: Crossbow, Bow
Armor: Hat, Clothing
Accessories: Shoes, Ring, Armlet, Cloak
Can equip shields?: Yes

Actions:
Leg Aim - add don't move
JP Cost: 200
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Arm Aim - add don't act
JP Cost: 300
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Cupid - add charm
JP Cost: 400
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Tranquilizer - add sleep
JP Cost: 500
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Venom Shot - add poison
JP Cost: 250
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Reaction:

Catch
Arrow Guard

Support:
Equip Bow - equips bow and crossbow
Poach (Removed from Thief)
Tame (Removed from Orator)

Movement:
Jump +3
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Post by: Oblivion on May 04, 2009, 11:30:39 pm
Quote from: "Kourama"ehrgeiz20 my patch I posted I already changed my archer and called it ranger too. I'm gonna post in the same format you did and show you what I did with my ranger. Feel free to use any ideas I had on your ranger as well.

Job Name: Ranger (Replacing Archer Job)
Skillset: Hunting (Replacing Aim Command)
HP Growth: 11
HP Multiplier: 100
MP Growth: 16
MP Multiplier: 65
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 110
PA Growth: 45
PA Multiplier: 110
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 80
Move: 3
Jump: 4
C-Ev%: 10
Innate: Poach
Innate: Move-Find Item
Innate: Gained JP Up (all generic jobs have this though in my patch)

Equipment:
Weapons: Crossbow, Bow
Armor: Hat, Clothing
Accessories: Shoes, Ring, Armlet, Cloak
Can equip shields?: Yes

Actions:
Leg Aim - add don't move
JP Cost: 200
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Arm Aim - add don't act
JP Cost: 300
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Cupid - add charm
JP Cost: 400
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Tranquilizer - add sleep
JP Cost: 500
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Venom Shot - add poison
JP Cost: 250
Chance to learn: 50%
Learn with JP?: Yes

Reaction:

Catch
Arrow Guard

Support:
Equip Bow - equips bow and crossbow
Poach (Removed from Thief)
Tame (Removed from Orator)

Movement:
Jump +3

thanks kourama!
this is helpful!
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on May 06, 2009, 08:41:02 am
Some alternate spellists i've been kicking around, the main point is giving the sage a full 16 spell skillset, but I eventually want to give some spells back to the wizard, priest, and time mage, as soon as I figure out what spells those should be

Wizard
Fire
Fire 2
Fire 3
Ice
Ice 2
Ice 3
Bolt
Bolt 2
Bolt 3
Poison
Frog
Death
Flare

Priest
Cure
Cure 2
Cure 3
Regen
Raise
Raise 2
ReRaise
Protect
Shell
Wall
Esuna
Holy

Oracle
Blind
Silence Song
Spell Absorb
Life Drain
Confusion
Sleep
Zombie
Blind Rage
Paralyze
Snare (don't move)
Break
Pray Faith
Doubt Faith

Time Mage
Haste
Slow
Stop
Float
Demi
Demi 2
Comet (choco meteor effect, hits 1-6 times, random fire, range 4, area 1v255)
Comet 2 (meteorain effect, hits 1-3 times, range 4, area 2v255)

Sage
Fire 4
Ice 4
Bolt 4
Poison 2
Toad 2
Death 2
Flare 2
Cure 4
Protect 2
Shell 2
Confuse 2
Sleep 2
Zombie 2
Haste 2
Slow 2
Meteor
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Post by: philsov on May 06, 2009, 09:09:30 am
do you really want the sage's skillset to outclass every other one?
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on May 06, 2009, 12:26:57 pm
The ultimate goal is to make the sage kind of like the 1.3 summoner, only moreso. In that it has all high-cost, high effect (increased area or damage) spells spread between attack and support, with slow ct. The summon spells will be altered to hit all enemies/allies, and direct damage/healing summons will become persistant effects (they will no longer be unevadable, however). But, in the end, this is all for a personal lolpatch where I get to have epic magic duels.

I might end up having the base classes get all the spells that the sage gets, but making them all learn-on-hit only, so that the base magic classes can pick up some of the 'ultimate' spells, but only the sage can use them all at once.
Title: Final Fantasy Tactics: True Story of the Zodiac Braves (TZB)
Post by: Knight Devout Leahcim on May 15, 2009, 09:34:05 pm
FFT: True Story of the Zodiac Braves

This is the tale of the great battle fought between the Demon Lord of Mullonde and the original Zodiak Braves.

It is to be a complete departure from Tactics: There are different weapons, completely changed classes, different story set in Ivalice's past of warring states. Maybe, if it is possible, even a reworked map. This is beyond the scope of what I myself can do; Therefore i am gladly accepting aid from anyone. those who help will be named in game- no thefts of ideas or work here. so far, I am aprox. 10-20 % complete with classes. would include excell spreadsheet, but not supported. once it is finished, ill release a completed class patch.
Title: True Zodiac story
Post by: Knight Devout Leahcim on May 16, 2009, 04:56:19 pm
As Mullonde was partially destroyed by the death of St. Ajora, I had to slighly alter the map... which leads to a new problom. How can I add new map locations and routes?
Title:
Post by: Vanya on May 16, 2009, 09:02:49 pm
That is rather complex and is still being researched.
Title: TZB
Post by: Knight Devout Leahcim on May 17, 2009, 01:07:40 am
Thank you for your info.

also, is there a way to remove male-only and female-only requirements from the bard/dancer, so that i can have an even 20 classes?
Title: TZB
Post by: Knight Devout Leahcim on May 17, 2009, 02:07:23 am
OK. This is the classes that will be used, partially. will update when complete, but enjoy.
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Post by: LastingDawn on May 17, 2009, 01:18:36 pm
Unfortunately there isn't... but if you make all ccharacter's Male and Female they can become Bard and Dancer, of course they'd all screm like men...
Title: TZB
Post by: Knight Devout Leahcim on May 17, 2009, 08:47:02 pm
Some of the story of TZB:

1st Chapter: Main character is the nephew and confidant of the king of murond, also a leader in the military. eventually, your uncle becomes erratic and paranoid of a supposed invasion from the more powerful nation of gallione, and dabbles into forbidden magic to find a way to protect his people. he thinks he summons an angel from the fara religion, but it is actually a lucavi demon, who slays the king and steals his form. you find this out and try to fight him. you are defeated, but you manage to find out his weakness to the zodiac stones. you steal gemeni (or another) which is the national treasure. you give it to your closest friend, who enherits the info of the demon, and you die from wounds.
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Post by: Cheetah on May 31, 2009, 01:00:48 pm
So while working on Final Fantasy Tactics: Complete, I have though of a few easy hacks that could be combined with it to give the original game a little life. Or at least make the old challenged for the more structured and legitimate. I don't know much about single class playthroughs or single play playthroughs, but you could make some really simple FFTPatcher edits to make them really legit.

For single class playthroughs change squire to whatever job you want the single class to be, and then make all the other jobs not unlocked using squire. Then turn the original single class into squire and reassign all enemies who are supposed to be squire in ENTD to that job. Then just make it so all special characters either don't join or edit them so they only have the single class as well. I'm sure there are a few other things you would have to do, but this would be the gist of it. Each single class would have to be a different patch obviously, but someone could make it there mission to start with the most popular and work their way through all of them.

For a single player Ramza playthrough it would be really easy to do. Remove the units joining from the Gariland fight (is it doable with just Ramza and no training), use the Soldier Office ASM hack so that it can't be used, disable all special characters joining or even guests appearing (have them teleport away at the beginning of the battle and teleport back at the end for their dialog), and remove invite. Then you would have a true Ramza only playthrough.

To do these right they would take a little work, but they might be useful.
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Post by: Oblivion on June 01, 2009, 01:55:24 am
I'm going to remove the Calculator/Arithmetician job and replace it with the Red Mage job. The problem is I don't want it to be called Red Mage... it's not very creative. I can't think of anything... so can someone help me think of a more creative name?
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Post by: psp7master on June 01, 2009, 02:50:37 am
Spellblade,
Mystic Knight,
Sage,
Seer?
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Post by: Oblivion on June 01, 2009, 03:10:12 am
Quote from: "psp7master"Spellblade,
Mystic Knight,
Sage,
Seer?

I like Seer. Any other suggestions?

P.S. Welcome back.
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Post by: psp7master on June 01, 2009, 05:36:20 am
Quote from: "ehrgeiz20"
Quote from: "psp7master"Spellblade,
Mystic Knight,
Sage,
Seer?

I like Seer. Any other suggestions?

P.S. Welcome back.
Thanks. I won't be so magiteky now.  I've always liked the Magus/magister/magician name.
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Post by: Shade on June 01, 2009, 07:02:55 am
Arch mage?
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Post by: psp7master on June 01, 2009, 07:34:14 am
Quote from: "Shade"Arch mage?
Wow, the best choice for now.
Like Arch angel or Voldemort.
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Post by: Oblivion on June 01, 2009, 05:37:18 pm
Arch Mage seems to be more directed to one who uses high leveled magick... Red Mages don't use high level magick. But it does sound cool.
Title:
Post by: Shade on June 02, 2009, 05:18:59 am
Arch wizard would bew that one that uses high level magick.
You could do as normal job arch mage that has weaker spells from black magick and white magick. arch wizard has of the strong skills, but it's special job. how about that?
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Post by: Oblivion on June 02, 2009, 04:39:45 pm
that's good!
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Post by: Oblivion on June 03, 2009, 05:21:43 am
Quote from: "psp7master"I found a way to raise your HP to 1998. Simply give everyone innate Mana shield, destroy Manafont and give all abilities CT but not MP. I'll try that later in a patch. (I mean a huge patch, not like my previous.)
Any ideas?

a patch without MP. interesting. continue with this i look foward to your progress.
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 03, 2009, 11:01:08 am
Quote from: "psp7master"Thanks. I won't be so magiteky now.

-_- You lied to me.
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 03, 2009, 03:20:09 pm
Yeah, if you sacrifice All Other reaction abilities for this plan! It's really not worth it and it takes away one of the things which makes FFT pretty unique.
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 03, 2009, 03:48:42 pm
LD brings up a point I had not even thought of. Unless you hacked it (why make this particular change then) you would have innate reaction which means any other reactions would be overwritten, or possibly th other way around making it even less thought out.
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Post by: Oblivion on June 03, 2009, 04:18:02 pm
What if the spells costed HP instead of MP?
Title:
Post by: DarthPaul on June 03, 2009, 04:20:13 pm
Quote from: "ehrgeiz20"What if the spells costed HP instead of MP?

That would add a whole new level of strategy to it. Then again why would we even need the MP bar anymore. Still does not seem like a plausible solution to a problem that is not a problem in the first place.
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Post by: Oblivion on June 03, 2009, 04:23:27 pm
Quote from: "darthpaul"
Quote from: "ehrgeiz20"What if the spells costed HP instead of MP?

That would add a whole new level of strategy to it. Then again why would we even need the MP bar anymore. Still does not seem like a plausible solution to a problem that is not a problem in the first place.

Eh. True.

P.S. Wow. Banhammered already.

EDIT

What about more HP consuming skills? Not going to kill MP but make more skills HP consumers. Like Agrias's Holy Sword abilities or Meliadoul's 100% equipment destroying abilities.
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 03, 2009, 04:24:46 pm
He was picking shards of Hammer out of his skull hours ago.

After calling out Zodiac like that I didn't see him lasting long at all.
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Post by: Oblivion on June 03, 2009, 04:27:13 pm
I edited my last post.
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 03, 2009, 04:34:17 pm
That would be interesting, like the Physical skills from the SMT Persona games.
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Post by: Oblivion on June 03, 2009, 04:37:07 pm
Quote from: "darthpaul"That would be interesting, like the Physical skills from the SMT Persona games.
In order to make the skills cost HP, would that be done through ASM hacking?
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 03, 2009, 05:22:46 pm
As far as I know. No skill that I'm aware of costs HP to use.
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 03, 2009, 06:03:45 pm
Well, % of damage done with Worker 8's formulas but that all bases around PA * Y, and it can't cause status.
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Post by: Dome on June 03, 2009, 06:31:26 pm
Btw a patch without MP and magic, focused on PA fight would be nice.
Instead of MP we could use CT and HP cost.
Every class Shouldn't have any kind of magic, and MA should be removed as well, along with all magic class.

Priest
Wizard
Time Mage
Summoner
Oracle
Geomancer (he can stay but the skillset must be changed)
Samurai     (he can stay but the skillset must be changed)
Sage
Bard
Mime

Those class should be replaced with others, a lot of ability needs to be balanced-removed-replaced-moved
And maybe we could put some Unique character as a monster (special monsters like byblos I mean)
- Someone actually like this?
- It has already been done-thinked about it?
- Someone would be willing to help?

EDIT:
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3971/jobwheel.png)
This would be the job wheel ATM...

Random Ideas - things to do:
- Every class should have the same growth in every stat but different multipliers (no uber growth in shitty class that makes me want to level up in something and be something else)
- Mp bar should be removed (someone know if it can be done, or has some idea about it could be used?)
- The same goes for MA
- Faith should be used for some ability or removed as well?
- Jp up should be removed and jp to unlock class should be increased
- EACH class should be useful, and no one should be uber broken (this not goes for special characters ;P)
- A lot of items and equip should be reworked
- In a patch like that female unit became useless...some idea on how they can be buffed?
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Post by: Oblivion on June 03, 2009, 10:56:17 pm
Here is a brief summary of the patch I'm doing...

I'm doing a patch that reworks the jobs and abilities of WOTL. After completing the patch, I do plan on making one for the original FFT.

Changes
Changing of jobs and abilities, but not a huge change like Call of Power's jobs. More like reordering and replacing.

The removal of the Calculator/Arithmetician, Onion Knight, and Mime jobs. These jobs will be replaced with other notable jobs from other games or custom jobs. New sprites will be created for the new jobs.

Knight Swords are called Zweihanders and are now two-handed weapons.

All face characters without special jobs will receive special jobs. This includes Ramza, Luso, Delita, Argath, Mileuda, etc.

The generic Squire job will receive all of Ramza's skills but not his stat growth. The job will be losing the Move+1, Equip Axes, Defend, and Beastmaster abilities, but will gain the Reequip ability. They can equip crossbows, but can no longer equip Axes and Flails. The JP cost for this jobs abilities will be reduced making it very easy to master. This job has innate JP Boost and innate Reequip.

The generic Chemist job loses the Reequip, Treasure Hunter, and Safeguard ability. The JP cost for this jobs abilities will be reduced making it easier to master. This job has innate Throw Items. They can also equip Crossbows.

The generic Knight job will lose it's equipment breaking abilities and Parry but will gain Vigilance, Equip Axes (which will be changed to allow you to equip both Axes and Flails) and Defend. It will also gain other abilities that have not been decided on yet. They will be able to equip Crossbows, Polearms, Axes and Flails, too. This job has innate Defend.

The generic Archer job will now be called Ranger. All Aim abilities except for Aim+10 will be removed. Aim+10 will now be called Boost and the JP cost will be lowered. The Ranger job will gain Poach, Beastmaster, and Tame as learnable abilities and innate abilities. Equip Crossbows is to be changed to Long-Ranged Weaponry. This ability allows you to equip Crossbows, Bows, and Guns. This also means that the Ranger job can equip Crossbows, Bows, and Guns. This job will lose the Adrenaline Rush ability. The other abilities for this have not been decided on yet. The Jump+1 ability is removed from this job. The Ranger job has innate Concentration.

The generic Wizard job will receive an evasion boost. The Black Mage job will be called Wizard in both versions of the game.

The generic Priest job will receive an evasion boost and receive Critical: HP Recover. The White Mage job will be called Priest in both versions of the game.

The generic Monk job will now be called Martial Artist. They will be able to equip Poles. They lose the First Strike and Critical: HP Recover ability but gain the Adrenaline Rush and Boonecrusher ability.

The generic Thief job loses the Vigilance, Poach, Sticky Fingers, Move+2 and Jump+2 abilities but gains the Move+1 and Jump+1, Treasure Hunter abilities. The Treasure Hunter will be available as a learnable ability and as an innate ability. As a bonus, the Thief Job will also have innate Dual-Wield, but will not be able to learn it.
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Post by: philsov on June 04, 2009, 03:22:19 pm
Quote from: "pspmaster7"I can make you one.

 :ban:
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on June 04, 2009, 03:59:15 pm
I give it until tonight before the inevitable  :ban: happens. Some folks just don't learn...
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 04, 2009, 06:01:43 pm
He has past the limits of naive now he is just trolling with reckless abandon. Though his style is funny.
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Post by: Pickle Girl Fanboy on June 04, 2009, 06:36:41 pm
I had another story idea while crying over my quadruple-failed vagina dentata sprite.

Ramza and Alma survived the battle with Altima and escaped.  What happened to the rest of the party?

Then I figured out where I could use the sprite, and any other horrors I think up...

Lets say that the rest of the Party either died or were warped to another world after the battle with Altima.  (Either they were warped somewhere else or maybe Murond itself is part of a of twilight zone/in between worlds/world of the dead kind of place.  Which makes me think, what exactly was the "natural disaster" that destroyed Murond?  Maybe it was twisted into a gateway, a FFT Bermuda Triangle...)

Okay, so they are either dead, or in another world, and they have to get out.  Enter Vagina Dentata, and other Horrors.  The Things from the Abyss.  Paging Stephen King.

Just one battle after another with the toughest NPCs as your party, in completely random battles against living nightmares.

Lets see, who's in the party?

Mustadio
Agrias
Malak
Rafa
Beowulf
Reis
Orlandu
Meliadoul
WORKER 8
Cloud (Maybe this is where he splits up from the rest of the party, and finds the door back home...)
Byblos (This is an opportunity to give this bastard a backstory.  Maybe we can find out where he came from, and why he joined the party)

Edit

This idea is actually doable!  I need to do an ass-ton of event editing, some text editing, some FFTPatcher work, and make some nightmarish sprites, and that's it.

Now if only I wasn't one paycheck away from homeless...
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Post by: keener31 on June 08, 2009, 04:44:15 pm
crosspost from: http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... 3&start=40 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2673&start=40)

just wanted to drop a note in here as well.

posted in the WotL forum; i was able to come across a few instances in 1.3 on WotL that had de-lagged spell animations.

long story short: knight skills with units using bows/crossbows sometimes (cant confirm always) executed with /no/ framerate limitation. (i.e. they were very fast, not 30fps normalish and not 15fps slow).

if anyone has any experience in dealing with this topic, id be interested to hear what they may be able to figure out, using this info as a stepping stone.

i read that some people found spell effects that were "un"capped at 30fps, while most are capped at 15. this glitch has made it so certain effects are completely uncapped (over 30fps).

if anyone has the know-how to look further into this, id love to hear what you come up with. if no one does, or wants to do it, some pointers to the right info and tools to really get down to the nitty-gritty would be appreciated and i will have a go myself.

look forward to hearing input from others.
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on June 10, 2009, 02:27:53 pm
Quote from: "Dome"Btw a patch without MP and magic, focused on PA fight would be nice.
Instead of MP we could use CT and HP cost.
Every class Shouldn't have any kind of magic, and MA should be removed as well, along with all magic class.

I really like the idea of this,and I'd be willing to help

I don't think females need to be buffed,since they'll be the same as males it'll just be the players choice of what gender units they want

ideas:
warrior
brutal strike - chance of instant death
CHARGE! - raises ct of every ally to 100
boomerang - attack range of 6,chance to inflict confuse
leg aim - same
arm aim - same
hunter?
duel crossbow wielder
poison shot - inflicts poison
head shot - causes instant death
shield piercer - ignores evade
neurotoxin - inflicts don't act/don't move
ronin
slash - non-elemental earth slash
cyclone - hit all four adjacent panels
life - same as revive
leap slash - attacks any panel two panels away by jumping over obstacles
last chance - instantly kills unit by throwing equipped weapon at enemy

have hunter take secret hunt and move-find item
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Post by: Sephiel on June 11, 2009, 12:43:50 pm
I'm thinking about a Corpse Brigade Storyline...

QuoteStory :

Chapter 1 :

A Dead Men chapter. where you fight some people from the opposing nation-which-I-can't-remember... Ordalia !
The chapter ends with the war, and we see a scene where Wiegraf is talking with a nobleman who says he won't give the Dead Men the reward.

Chapter 2 :

"Wreaking havok in Ivalice."
All is said. Or not, this chapter also has fights against Ramza's team (the Wiegraf Chap 1 fight in fact)
Then we see Wiegraf looking at the Fort Zeakden explosion. We have a "One year later", where after fighting against some knights at the Lenalian Plateau, we see Wiegraf joining the Templar Knights...

Chapter 3 :

So, a new adventure begins, with a commoner who joined the Corpse Brigade just before its destruction deciding to take it over. He wins some fights, and we even have a fight against Wiegraf, who says that his dreams are shattered, and that now, he serves the Church, so he have to defend it against the Corpse Brigade assault.
The chapter ends after this battle, with a recreated Corpse Brigade...

Chapter 4 :

The Corpse Brigade wins many fights, and after FFT's ending, they decide to attack the King (Delita). They win the fight against the Crown Knights, but the Corpse Leader is killed by the King himself in an ending scene...
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 11, 2009, 12:56:38 pm
Quote from: "Sephiel"I'm thinking about a Corpse Brigade Storyline...

QuoteStory :

Chapter 1 :

A Dead Men chapter. where you fight some people from the opposing nation-which-I-can't-remember... Ordalia !
The chapter ends with the war, and we see a scene where Wiegraf is talking with a nobleman who says he won't give the Dead Men the reward.

Chapter 2 :

"Wreaking havok in Ivalice."
All is said. Or not, this chapter also has fights against Ramza's team (the Wiegraf Chap 1 fight in fact)
Then we see Wiegraf looking at the Fort Zeakden explosion. We have a "One year later", where after fighting against some knights at the Lenalian Plateau, we see Wiegraf joining the Templar Knights...

Chapter 3 :

So, a new adventure begins, with a commoner who joined the Corpse Brigade just before its destruction deciding to take it over. He wins some fights, and we even have a fight against Wiegraf, who says that his dreams are shattered, and that now, he serves the Church, so he have to defend it against the Corpse Brigade assault.
The chapter ends after this battle, with a recreated Corpse Brigade...

Chapter 4 :

The Corpse Brigade wins many fights, and after FFT's ending, they decide to attack the King (Delita). They win the fight against the Crown Knights, but the Corpse Leader is killed by the King himself in an ending scene...

Sounds good, a rather solid foundation, and the Corpse Brigade has always been a matter of interest, but in Chapter 4 Delita makes a case to say that the Corpse Brigade was just one of many bands raising up against the nation. Also does that mean that we won't be playing as Wiegraf after he joins the Church? Keep in mind though, Wiegraf thought he was doing the right thing, "ideals without power is just hopeless dreams". He would view any resurgence as a betrayal of his initial ideals, Wiegraf had a sharp, but silk tongue. It would be interesting to see them though meet up with Wiegraf/Velius, watching Velius completely dominate Wiegraf's spirit, if the group would say... try to have Wiegraf take command of the newly found Death Corps.

Wiegraf in human form I don't think would have the heart to fight against his former friends and allies. If he is human Wiegraf though I could see him trying to entice his old allies to join him in his new crusade. Keep in mind, Wiegraf was an incredible speaker and a great fighter. What we see in Fovoham is Wiegraf at his most furious, this is because well... the people who killed his sister are standing in front of him, even then he maintains a calm and cool attitude. To represent Wiegraf appropriately will definitely be a difficult task.

Also thank you for posting this in This thread, new members sometimes make the mistake to post the idea in the forum without reading ahead of time. In any case if you need any help with this I'll give you pointers, just PM or post your thoughts here.
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Post by: Sephiel on June 11, 2009, 03:11:54 pm
Well, the Corpse Brigade Storyline is just a random idea which sounded great in my mind... I liked Wiegraf as soon as I saw him, and I thought the Corpse Brigade he founded needed some background... If I wasn't writing something, it would have ended as a fanfiction.
About making the patch... I think the only thing I can currently efficiently do is writing the text, because, well, I played around with FFTPatcher, but that's all... And I don't have a computer on which I can put everything I want (Family's computer...) yet. Whether I will have a laptop or not in october depends on my exams' grades.
So, I think I have to find some people interested about doing this patch, and try to put it up...

So, about what you said about Wiegraf, now that I've read it, I see that my chapter 3 is a little off-character... I think they will encounter Wiegraf before Belias (sorry, but I've only played WotL, so I'll use its names) possesses him... The Corpse Brigade may fight against some Church guys, and then we have a scene where Wiegraf comes, unwilling to fight his former comrades, and have a Ramza/Delita-like chat with them... I wonder if the may encounter him again after this of not.
Then, they encounter him shortly after the Lucavi possession, and have to fight him. Then, we see him transforming into Belias, and the Corpse Brigade is saved by the timely intervention of Folmarv, who says that they have more important things to do, namely going to Riovannes.

This patch's Wiegraf will have a character development like this :

Chapter 1 : While a "Dead Man", he will behave like a normal soldier, saying many times that it is Ivalice's people task to fight for their kingdom.


Chapter 2 : The FFT Chapter 1 Wiegraf, but we see him showing regret about killing Gustav, and Gragoroth's stupidity...

Chapter 3 :
The most important change. Wiegraf is now a loyal Templar Knight, but [Hey, I got a great idea there] wanting to use the Glabados Church to his own ends. When he encounters the resurrected Corpse Brigade, he decides to make them his new sword... He controls them without actually taking part in their battles.
Then he is possessed by Belias, and when he meets his former friends again, they unwillingly fight him, and after the battle, "normal" Wiegraf tries to resists Belias' might, until he decides to totally take over by transforming.

Chapter 4 : We see him in his Corpse Brigade outfit, as a spirit, looking Delita killing the Corpse Leader (let's call him like that for now), and saying the last line of the patch : "I have to find something to say myself, because Sephiel doesn't know what to write here."

What do you think of this ? I think some jobs will be added, and some other edited (I hate hate [Kefka style] hate Knights' movesets.) Sprites will be created, for Gragoroth, Gustav, and some Chapter 3/4 special characters... But again, I have to learn how to use the tools at my disposition at their best potential.

PS : Oh, I'm French, so excuse me if I do spell errors. Oh, and because I'm French, this patch may exist in both French and English.
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 12, 2009, 03:40:39 am
Hmm, well it seems rather well thought out, but if Holy Stones do work (like the Auracite they are named after from Revenant Wings) then each use would dissolve a little more of the person's soul with each use. No doubt his first transformation is in front of Ramza, it's too pivotal to the initial storyline to change. Though I'd say transformation isn't enough to rob of one's soul. Dycedarg still had a solid grip on Adramelk after he died. Wiegraf is a bit more complicated, since he is nothing like his former self in the Riovanes fight. We don't know if that was really the Cardinal or just Queklain pretending to be the Cardinal, the way Queklain (Cuchulainn) speaks leads one to believe that he is duped into believing he's in control. The only on screen Lucavi resistance comes from Alma of course. Golagros though is a bit difficult to hate though... I always felt a bit sorry for him, his text in WoTL, is very well spoken, also his final line of "May heaven help..." is rather ambiguous. I honestly think that he never wanted anything untoward to happen to his hostage, but he also wanted to survive.


 Gustav though will be an interesting focal point, but which Gustav are you using? FFT Gustav was a man who was Expelled from the Knights for rape and robberies at captured towns. In WoTL he leaves the knights precisely because he sees these things happening. So he is the one character that changes Tremendously depending on which version you're playing.

Also the church agreed to help Wiegraf to change things, it's how Rofel (Loffrey) drew him in. though controlling the new Corpse Brigade from afar does seem something Wiegraf would do.
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Post by: Sephiel on June 12, 2009, 08:05:19 am
About Possessed Wiegraf :

QuoteSo, the Belias transformation has to be avoided... Well, I really want to make a Wiegraf fight, maybe even a 1 on 1...

So, the Wiegraf fight would be like that : the Corpse Brigade encounters him, and after some talking the Corpse Leader figures that Wiegraf is not the same, talking about a goal of bringing chaos to Ivalice... So, he refuses obeying Wiegraf's orders, who says that the Brigade is useless to him anyway, and tells the Leader to draw his sword (parallel). They fight, and after his defeat Wiegraf says that he will have to use his full strenght, before being stopped by Folmarv.

Oh, and I thought about making two followers for Templar Knight Wiegraf, because Possessed Eldmore had them, Folmarv had them... How about them being killed by the Brigade after the Wiegraf fight ? I see it like this. Wiegraf leaves, and tells his followers to finish off the Leader, who is rejoined by the rest of the Brigade...

About Gragoroth :

QuoteWell, the Brigade almost never takes hostages, so I think Wiegraf will say something like "This is why I don't want to take hostages..." while watching the Zeakden explosion.

About Gustav :

QuoteThanks you for telling me about the difference between FFT Gustav and WotL Gustav...
So, I don't know what version of him I will use... The FFT one seems good, because I could have Wiegraf show regret before going to stop him, like "After all these fights side by side, I have to kill him... He didn't choose the right path..."

About Normal Wiegraf :

QuoteI know the Church agreed to help him, but if I could make things going faster, I would grab the occasion...

About the Corpse Leader :

QuoteA name comes to my mind, Victor... But it is not the important...
I was thinking about his skillset... How about a "Reverse Holy Knight" (temporary name) skillset ? With all the White Knight's skills in a dark color scheme, and different status effects...
Oh, and his job would be Brigade Leader.

About playable Wiegraf :

QuoteSo, I wonder if I should rename his job Brigade Leader for the patch, with two Holy Sword skillsets : in Chapter 1 he has Judgment Blade and some Squire skills, while in Chapter 2/3 he has his FFT Chapter 1 skillset...
What do you think ?
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 12, 2009, 12:33:45 pm
White Knight has a very interesting description though, which I think really shows what was under the core, it's one of the more personal descriptions which call him a pious man, which is the reason he can wear the "armor of purity" as the game puts it, I can't recall what the WoTL translation of Wiegraf's job is though, eh well.

Well I still have my doubts on Kletian. (Cletienne) In WoTL he comes across as a "know it all" who "knows nothing". He graduated at the top of his class in Gariland, which shows that he Existed before serving Vormav (Folmarv). Rofel (Loffrey) on the other hand only has a silk tongue, we don't know much else about him, if anything. He might have been a simple servant, but I believe Kletian to just be a youth wrapped up into all of this, not against his will per se, but against his knowledge of the absolute goal. WoTL even goes so far to say that Meliadoul and Kletian were at one time friends, or even more. But enough one of my personal favorite under rated characters...

It would make sense that he could have two lackeys, but who or what would they be? Granted Wiegraf in every fight he's in (aside his last) surrounds himself with women, so I would probably say... women, in any case.

Well in the normal game Wiegraf seemed sorrowful that it had come to that , I read an excellent fanfic told from the perspective of two rogues under Gustav's command, once. I think it was simply called Gustav Margueriff, it should be on Fanfiction.net,  it really says a lot about both of their characters.
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Post by: Sephiel on June 12, 2009, 01:17:44 pm
[I just want to say that I perfectly understand PSX FFT names, so you don't have to bother putting WotL names]

The lackeys might simply be like Eldmore's, Ultima Demons in disguise. Celia and Lettie's sprites may even be used to draw a parallel between possessed people... But putting human followers may be a good choice either : They served unpossessed Wiegraf, and though they know that possessed Wiegraf has nothing common with the man they served, they still want to fight for him...

About Wiegraf's job, the thought came to me that White Knight may represent Wiegraf will to help commoners... So, Brigade Leader may only end up as the Corpse Leader's job, to show that he is just the Brigade Leader...

Oh, and what about possible specials for this patch's Chapter 3/4 ? Who can they be ? Simple Brigade members, or other peoples ?
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Post by: mav on June 12, 2009, 01:56:50 pm
Your ideas are quite interesting, Sephiel. Wiegraf is a tragic character, and one of the few villains who truly deserves to have a fleshed out back story. I do have a couple questions and suggestions though: are you going to explore his and Milleuda's relationship? Are you going to heavily explore the impact her death has on Wiegraf? What definitive character traits will you use to explain why he became Belias?

And if you're planning on incorporating the Templar Knights, you should really exploit the fact the Wiegraf is an outsider looking in. And if you really feel bold, show Loffrey's true nature--he may be an Ultima Demon, from what I understand. There's so much history in the Templar that we don't hear about; I think it would be a great justice for you to bring this history to surface.
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 12, 2009, 02:29:58 pm
To make things simpler and to show a point, they could just be copies of Celia and Lede. A mark given from Ultima to her servants, as these servants are "crowned with Ultima's name". I don't really know about specials, other then the Brigade Leader, of course at the start Miluda, Gustav, and Golagros would no doubt be specials, though I would guess everyone else would be... well normal, civilians fighting for a "worthy cause" or church troops who tag along with Wiegraf.

Well the game gives the reason he was compatible with Belias "his despair and resentment called to him". I'm sure Rofel and Vormav knew this as well, hence the reason they brought him on board. My guess is that Miluda's death really affected Wiegraf much  more then he lets on, though it might have been those bottled feelings, that really stretched it's hand out to Velius.

I feel the theory about Rofel being an Ultima Demon as flawed. If he were he would have transformed, rather then simply died the way he did, Ramza remarks about Rofel being "not human" but I think he means "not human" in the same way Balk was brought back rather then being an Ultima Demon, he also says something similar to Algus in WoTL. Heh, I really love their back and forth jabber in that fight, Ramza is so much of a changed character from when they first met that they handled that final meeting beautifully. "Sold your soul to Lucavi... That would make your grandsire proud!".

One important thing, that's really only mentioned in a single sentence is that Meliadoul also knew Wiegraf, she remarks about Ramza having the strength to defeat him, so that could go somewhere. It's possible he could look at Meliadoul as a replacement for Miluda, not that he would get over it, as his feelings concealed it would only feed the spirit of the stone. I am interested though to see the Shrine Knights daily activities pulled off well. Of course we only stay with Wiegraf a short time after he joins the church, as the story is of the Death Corps, not of only Wiegraf, which makes sense.
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Post by: Sephiel on June 12, 2009, 03:20:16 pm
Well, at the end of Chapter 2, I can make put more fights with Wiegraf in the team in which he shows more of his sorrow about Milleuda's death... Here's the idea. One year later, he is hunted down, and is hunting Ramza to find revenge... At the end of a fight, we see him alone in the battlefield, and he has a burst of anger... Well, not really fitting to Wiegraf's character I think, but it is a beginning. After he joins the Church we play a little as him, until the Brigade Leader resurrects the Brigade...
And yes, the Wiegraf-Milleuda relationship will be shown on a new... Well, it will be shown. Because all we see from their relationship is... nothing. If we don't count Wiegraf's behavior after her death.

Having Wiegraf's followers being Celia and Lettie would be great indeed, but I wonder if putting humans wouldn't be better. For tragicness...

About specials, the Leader will be one, and he may have a friend who will be a special. Besides, what about Chapter 1 Wiegraf skillset ? I feel giving him access to too much of the Holy Knight skillset to early would be stupid, so using two different White Knight classes would be okay...

And to finish, can someone give me by PM the latest tactext editor, (I see many talk about it, but every link leading to it is broken) and... well, I forgot what the other thing was...
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Post by: mav on June 12, 2009, 08:20:45 pm
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Well the game gives the reason he was compatible with Belias "his despair and resentment called to him". I'm sure Rofel and Vormav knew this as well, hence the reason they brought him on board. My guess is that Miluda's death really affected Wiegraf much  more then he lets on, though it might have been those bottled feelings, that really stretched it's hand out to Velius.
Very well put LD. I don't think FFT touched on this heavily, but for a more Wiegraf-centric story to take place, Mileuda's death, the ensuing despair, and Wiegraf's eventual resentment should be key elements.

As for your conclusions regarding Loffrey, I can understand where you're coming from. Perhaps it is a stretch for Loffrey to be an Ultima Demon, but I think it's undeniable that he has a different aura about himself than some of the others...and didn't Ramza also specifically mention that he sensed the same evil about Loffrey as he did for Celia and Lettie? Anyhow, your analysis fits, so whatever.
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 12, 2009, 09:35:18 pm
Quote from: "LD"I feel the theory about Rofel being an Ultima Demon as flawed. If he were he would have transformed, rather then simply died the way he did, Ramza remarks about Rofel being "not human" but I think he means "not human" in the same way Balk was brought back rather then being an Ultima Demon, he also says something similar to Algus in WoTL.

This or he is stating that he is "not human" in the way that you would refer to say a spartan. I think he was referring to Rofel's sheer power without merging with the Lucavi. In a sense he has "inhuman" fierceness and power.
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Post by: Vanya on June 12, 2009, 10:46:34 pm
The way I see it is that Ramza's comment points to either Loffrey being a demon himself or that he is the one that summoned Celia, Ledde and possibly all the other demon-type monsters the player encounters. Personally I like the idea of him being a demon like C&D.
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 13, 2009, 12:00:27 am
Heh, interesting case Darth Paul, but I'm afraid there's a bit to contradict that, he only says that before you fight Rofel, he would have no reason to say that, as he hadn't measured his strength much at all, except at Murond Holy Place, where... well they aren't two threatening.

The other contradiction is...

QuoteRofel: I've been waiting for you, Ramza. That's far enough!
Rest eternally beneath this monastery!

Ramza: This feeling...same as when I fought Celia and Lede!!
You are not human.

Rofel: No, I am not...I've risen above humans... I have
obtained eternal life with the help of Vormav's power... Hee,
hee, hee... You can't understand the joy.

Ramza: What are you trying to do? What do you want?

Rofel: Do you really want to know, Ramza? If you do, then
you'll have to beat me. That is, if you can...

Which he basically says is the same as when he was fighting Celia and Lede, which were the First Two humanoid Abnormalities, (other then the Lucavi and Demons) he had fought.

QuoteRamza: There is something familiar in this. Something reminiscent of our battle
with Celia and Lettie. You are no mortal man.

Loffrey: No, that I am not. I am something far greater. Folmarv has made it
possible for me to leave behind ignorance, the frailty of the flesh. I am given
the gift of life eternal. A joy you can never know.

Ramza: What drives you to do what you do? What is it you seek?

Loffrey: Questions...so many questions. But your search for answers is in vain.
They wait beyond me, forever beyond your reach!


In both his text points to his case being the Exact Same as Balk, he says similar things about it, a demon wouldn't have to beg immortality, he already is immortal. Celia and Lede never speak of such a thing, then again they hardly speak at all...
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Post by: DarthPaul on June 13, 2009, 08:31:01 am
Good points, I admit to a slight ignorance of the dialogue in his battle as I always rushed him. Though he makes it sounds as either he merged with a Lucavi (which I doubt, as you do too it seems) or the stone can grant immortality by turning one into a demon. If he started out human then became a demon, it would make sense for him not to become one before he died. Hence the Celia and Lede case.
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Post by: mav on June 13, 2009, 01:06:19 pm
Ah, very enlightening, LD. By the way, where are you getting the scripts from? It'd be quite useful for personal analysis...

Anyhow, those quotes are crucial to understanding Loffrey. If anything he's in the same league as a few of the others, like Balk. He's risen above humanity, in a sense. Is this something exclusive to the Templar?
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 13, 2009, 01:50:33 pm
Scripts are from gamefaqs.com, under Final Fantasy Tactics and War of the Lions respectively. What I really do like about the case is that it shows more of random characters, he doesn't lose his cool but simply asks Rofel what his end goal is, even knowing that he is no longer human, he still thought to speak with him in a civil manner, Rofel does not respond in kind though.

Also the first time you hear the babble of being "more then human" is from Draclau... which unfortunately the makers of the script on gamefaqs missed. Alright only WoTL for this reference I guess... Or not, wow... then again I guess in the normal game it's almost difficult to get Ramza down to 50% HP to initiate the conversation in the Queklain fight.
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on June 14, 2009, 11:50:35 pm
Quote from: "Lydyn":ban: :gay:

Anyways, I'm not diving fully into it all, as I'm sure there's been some progress in the way of story-editing. I just don't have time for that, but I am finding myself with some time to make something worth-wild (I hope).

Someone mentioned elsewhere about making Bard & Dancer require level 2 Squire and branching out from there with a tree for males and females, much like the Tactics Ogre game. I found this an inviting concept, so I ended up with a job tree like this;

Squire --2--> Bard/Dancer

Bard --2--> Knight
Dancer --2--> Chemist

Chemist --2--> Archer, White Mage
Knight --2--> Monk

Bard --3--> Black Mage

White Mage --2--> Time Mage
Archer --2--> Thief
Black Mage --2--> Oracle/Mystic
Monk --2--> Geomancer

Time Mage --3--> Mediator/Orator
Thief --3--> Lancer/Dragoon
Geomancer --3--> Samurai
Lancer/Dragon --3--> Ninja
Mystic/Oracle --3--> Summoner

Squire --8--> Calculator (Mage Sword)

I am in need for some suggestions that hopefully strike a cord within my inspiration though. Above all, for the Bard and Dancer, since I hate to see their skills introduced so early in the game. Any other ideas are welcomed as well. The only other tad-bits I have to give is that I plan on changing Ramza's job from Squire to Knight/Guardian/Fire Storm and that the new job points are as follows;

Level 1: 300
Level 2: 600
Level 3: 900
Level 4: 1200
Level 5: 1500
Level 6: 1800
Level 7: 2100
Level 8: 9999
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Post by: SilvasRuin on June 15, 2009, 02:20:44 am
I think you might should move the Mage Sword over to the male's side.  It's a bit lopsided otherwise.  It also looks weird to have the male side branch one job earlier than the female side.

I don't know how each class can be altered without screwing things up, but if you could place Geomancer's stubborn skillset on the Bard and basically swap the two, that would be helpful in starting that side off.  Geomancers are hybrids after all.  You could put the Geomancer turned Bard somewhere on the magic line, assuming the switch between the two is possible.  The Mage Sword could be unlocked through Summoner and Samurai.

With females, you could see about swapping the ability list of Chemist and Dancer.  Females have less hybrid types... hm...  you could try statting Dancer as a hybrid.  Ninja and Orator are feasible requirements, not that the vanilla requirements made all that much sense in some areas to begin with.  That should even up the two sides fairly nicely, I think.  Males would ironically wind up favoring magic and females would wind up favoring physical.
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Post by: Sephiel on June 15, 2009, 12:32:06 pm
I finally decided how I will do the Brigade Patch.
First, I'll work with classes, abilities, sprites... well, everything except the events/story. I'll make a patch that will use the changes, but with the vanilla story, in order to ensure that my changes are good...
Then, the story editing will take place, and after it will be done, I'll just have to combine the two steps to get the patch...
Is this a good idea ?
Of course, I won't work often, due to the fact that the only computer in my house is a family computer, but after october things may go way faster...
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 15, 2009, 12:45:24 pm
Yes, that is the way to go! If you do one without the other things could get quite confusing. We already have an overview so that's enough of a storybase to work off of.
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Post by: Sephiel on June 15, 2009, 01:20:21 pm
So, I'll begin working on some things, like preparing skillsets, names, effects and all the rest... Then, I'll have to jump into the animations... From what I've seen, I feel like I will suffer a little to understand all these things...
Well, I'll prepare a topic about the patch, very complete, with all the changes planned, and then I'll try to work !
(BTW, if someone want to help me, all help is welcome :p)
(PS : Thanks for your help LastingDawn, and good luck for Mercenaries, I feel like this patch will be a very enjoyable experience to play =))
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Post by: Eddie on June 19, 2009, 11:30:28 am
Hi everyone.

I'm new here and I wanted to introduce myself. I have been playing FFT since it came out. I love this game and have played the game lots of time and done a couple challenges. After seeing the 1.3 version (I think should be the standard FFT) I was hooked again on my favorite game.

I have little editing/hacking experience. I want to use it to learn some basics and experiment, so I can start my patch.

My plan is to make another take on the story behind the game. The main character would Izlude. I always found him to be a noble character (if he hadn't died he was going to join Ramza 100%). Naturally the plot will need a mayor rewriting. If anyone has additional information about Izlude, Vormav and Meliadoul please let me know.

I haven't done a complete outline of how I would like the new story to go. So most things are expected to change or be polished by the time I start writing.

The Izlude story
We know Delita did exist and he was King after the war; on the other hand. Ramza's story is unknown to most, so maybe he didn't stop the lucavi, maybe the true hero was another man (Insert Izlude here).

First battle will be with Izlude in his Temple Knight sprite, Meliadoul will replace Agrias. The two sibblings will be in your party most of the game. This script for this battle will have to be completly redone.

Chapter 1

You start as a young Izlude in the Church Knight Academy. The intro is all about the good things done by the church in the war and how its pure awesome and goodness. It also mentions the great heros Draucla, Vormav and others. Then a Priest goes in and tells you that since most of the church army is mobilized the cadets are helping nearby a town that got attacked by bandits. He also tells Izlude he will lead the group to end with "go and make Ajora and your Father proud!"

After the first battle the game goes to the Balbanes scene. Here will see Vormav in his death bed, Meliadoul in Zalbag's spot, and their Eldest brother in Alma's spot (Dycegards place will be empty). Izlude runs in and Vormav tells him to makes his family proud and follow into becoming a great chuch knight, and to be a good rightous man...

Algus will be replace with a high ranking church oficial that will join Izlude party. He will shot His brother at the end of the chapter. This will make him start doubting his faith.

Now about Vormav, he was a great hero from the war, his wasnt as big as the cardinal but he had quite a reputation. In his death bed he got a visit from his great friend the Cardinal. He gave him the Leo stone "a gift from the church, In hope of your health improving"

All the DC, Miluda, Wiegraff battles will be rewritten to match the story. They will be replaced by a group of heretics that want to expose some secrets from the church, not the truth about ajora, but smaller things that church has done wrong. The both the characters replacing Wiegraff and Miluda will know the truth behind Ajora; however, their group is more worried with lowering church taxation then Lucavi myths.

Chapters 2 3 4 and other ideas

I'm thinking about leaving Delita's part in acts 2 3 and 4 mostly unchanged. Just changing the lines a bit, and maybe have him say "you remind me of an old friend" would tie it into the plot. (when all the Izlude parts are finished I would like to edit it but that can be the final part)..

Other fun things we could see

- Ramza in Izlude's position, head crushed barely able to see, saying  Izlude was right. He died trying to stop Vormav from taking his sister.
- I might make a Rad a Dark Knight (Gafs Apprentice) a special char that joins after his friend Ramza dies.
- Izlude goes to Igros to tell the Beoulves that Ramza died fighting Lucavi, and that Alma was taken. Dycegard turns into a Zalera and Zalbag  (that suspected Balbanes death) joins the fight. After Zalera is defeated, Zalbag forsakes his family name and joins the party. His quest? to save his only living family member. Maybe we can even have a stone raise Zalbag

The Jobs system will be the same as the one in 1.3, with maybe 1 or 2 new jobs replacing bard/dancer and mime
   
Please leave comments and specially suggestions
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Post by: LastingDawn on June 19, 2009, 01:45:05 pm
One thing about Izlude is he believed with 100% certainty what he was doing was right. He and Meliadoul were truly the children of a man loyal to his faith. I believe Vormav's wife was probably taken by an illness rather then a human. Regardless of the case both had the same effect. I'm personally glad to see that I'm not the only one that thought more on Vormav's character, hehe. Basically the same end I came to, his wife dies, goes mad with grief, the stone offers a solution and he succumbs. He had no reason to doubt a "Holy Stone", after all.

As for Izlude... he couldn't fight any Lucavi before a fleeting battle with Hashmalum. Also it would make no sense for Ramza saying "Izlude was right". Since by the point they would believe the same thing. Izlude is a very grey character, yet one of the best remembered. His lines are powerful and he represents a different path that Ramza might have taken (as so many other characters do...) he is blind to the church's wrongdoing, and believes that his family can bring peace through a subtle war. Once his father transforms and he somehow survives, I would bet that he wouldn't join Ramza, I think he would run to Funeral to tell him the news. Izlude is first and foremost loyal to the church.

Ramza was right About the Lucavi, this changes a few things but not everything. Meliadoul joins Ramza (I feel partially...) because the rest of her family was dead and she had to find out what had happened to her father. In my opinion you should have Ramza and Izlude split ways yet meet each other from time to time, killing Ramza and making Izlude the hero just seems cheap, he should stay to the side and assist where he can. Also Delita trusted and Only trusted Ramza, but Ramza and Delita had something special, they could predict eachother's moves. Delita is just Really lucky it was Ramza vs. Lucavi, not Ramza vs. Delita. They both countered each other wonderfully.

Ramza and Izlude on the other hand are a good pair to meet up with and talk and discuss plans for a while. Izlude strikes me as very independent. I think he would search for things his own way.
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Post by: Eddie on June 19, 2009, 02:49:16 pm
Thanks for you insight. As I said the plot is still very experimental.

I do think Ramza will die trying to save Alma. That makes Zalbag joining more poetic.

This would be a different take on what happened behind the war. We now have the Durai papers telling the Story of Ramza, but just like the gospels in real life we have different versions of the same events. Maybe the Durai papers are just parcially true, and the true hero was Izlude.

I do have to say I love the Idea of having Ramza and Izlude meet on several occasions. The Delita part I really havent decided.

thanks again for your ideas

Ill make an more complete outline of chapter one in a couple days. Ill also start changing/chosing some sprites.
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Post by: Redux on June 21, 2009, 12:15:53 pm
I have been thinking of developing a patch with my brother for quite a while. We are going to develop the job tree and skillsets first and foremost as well. The job tree is finished. Dancers, Bards, and Oracles are dead. Poor oracles. As a tiny taste for the patch here is the outline for the Red Mage:

Red Mage

Concept:
   
   This is not your daddy's Red Mage. It is a tweaked, and unique Red Mage. With the death of the Oracle, the Red mage will inherit a sample of Yin-Yang Magic along with a mix of Time, White, and Black Magic. This mage is adept at all, master of none. His time skills are limited to one skill, his black magic, though strong will pale in comparison to the real pointy-hatted mage. His white magicks will be simple healing, basic resurrection, and shell and protect. He will have good skills of all three without having all the essential abilities, like flare or esuna.
   What the Red Mage has up its sleeve is its ability to wield a variety of weapons, ranging from staves to rods, from swords to sticks. This versatility makes the red mage primary skill set even more attractive than just Red Magic secondary. While heavy armor use will have to be tested and decided on, the red mage will definitely have access to clothing and robes at the very least.   A mediocre mage with a variety of equipment, a variety of magic and a few spells unique to Red Magic.

Equipment: Hats, Clothing, Shields, Swords, Sticks, Rods, and Staves.
Skillset: (Red Magic <- working title)
Cure 2
Raise
Protect
Shell
Refresh
Bolt2
Ice2
Fire2
Bio
Slow
Mp Drain
Sleep


Rate, Hate, Pontificate? If requested I will spill the ideas for bard and dancer replacements.
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Post by: Sephiel on July 06, 2009, 05:56:22 pm
Well, I was getting bored, so I wrote the (possibly) first scene of the patch...
If you want change it, then go on :p
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Post by: mav on July 13, 2009, 10:24:56 pm
Sounds like a neat project, Alpha. If you can get it off the ground I'll be thoroughly impressed; it sounds a bit different from most proposed patches here, so you got that going for ya. Good luck with the coding.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on July 14, 2009, 12:58:13 am
I've been pondering the combination of certain gameplay elements and have been toying with them to see how I can make things fit.  I'd want to alter it from the original in most areas, but I've not even begun to learn how to use many of the resources, so progress on any fronts but the basic stuff would be slow indeed.  I'm not even starting on the basics in earnest yet, but felt like posting my musings on whim.  The key aspects of it would include:

Flat growths for all characters and jobs, except for gender/monster differences.
A reason for every job to be desirable to use rather than just the abilities.  (A different job tree is planned, of course.)
All monsters and armor bearing elemental weaknesses and resistances and all weapons bearing an element.
Multiple equipment of the same type falling on the same tier, providing more choices per tier but likely fewer tiers.
* Elements combined for simplicity and allowing the leftovers to provide specialty target abilities.  (i.e. like Sidewinder from FFTA, though I won't actually use that particular example)
A specialty for each of the "normal" elements.  Current leanings:  Fire, damage; Earth, AoE; Wind, range; Water, speed.
Rare/expensive expendable items so that potions and phoenix downs aren't so spamable.  (Different expendable items too, but I've not gotten to those yet in my ponderings.)
Currently leaning towards giving everything innate Def Up and Mag Def Up to keep fights from being too short and to provide more room for growth for characters without one-shotting everything.

* Current thoughts for elements include Fire and Earth unchanged, Water and Ice combined into Water, Wind and Lightning combined into Wind, Darkness being used as the healing and poison element (Life or some such name) for purposes of interaction with undead, and one of the remaining elements at least used for Dragons and Dragon targeting attacks/weapons.

I've been rather preoccupied lately, so work on this, again, will be slow at best.  This is just my musings over an overall concept.
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Post by: Poco Loco on July 31, 2009, 12:50:03 pm
Hey guys just throwing an idea out here (idk if someone pitched this or not I wasn't about 2 read 17 pages lol)

why not do a patch about Delita and what happens right after the explosion @ fort Zeikden, make Delita the main character, let him have his own squad and go about his own side of the story, and of course throw in a few appearances of Ramza and have him fight alongside you as a guest from time to time

just a thought guys, give me some feedback here :p
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Post by: LastingDawn on July 31, 2009, 02:27:03 pm
Quote from: "Poco Loco"Hey guys just throwing an idea out here (idk if someone pitched this or not I wasn't about 2 read 17 pages lol)

why not do a patch about Delita and what happens right after the explosion @ fort Zeikden, make Delita the main character, let him have his own squad and go about his own side of the story, and of course throw in a few appearances of Ramza and have him fight alongside you as a guest from time to time

just a thought guys, give me some feedback here :p

Heh, I can't say much but a Very prominent player in FFT Hacking is using that exact premise, hehe...
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Post by: Xifanie on August 07, 2009, 01:46:37 am
FFT needs a spoof hack; badly.
And a good one of course.
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Post by: Cheetah on August 07, 2009, 11:55:55 am
Zodiac: There was that like FFT fast forward thing on GameFAQs a long while ago that was kind of a comedy spoof of the story. I always thought it would be funny to do events of that, maybe use it as a base. Anyone have a link?

Parts of Zozma's Remix kind of started out as a spoof, but no longer I think.
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Post by: Captain Obvious on August 08, 2009, 04:58:48 pm
I wonder... If you learn abilities from weapons, like in FFTA? Can it be made?
Just want to make a FFTA hack. Maybe even hack WOtL...
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Post by: Dokurider on August 12, 2009, 04:34:45 pm
I have an idea for a patch. What if every skill in the game had a charge time? Except Attack, Steal, and Basic Skill? Furthermore, there would a new kind of charging for most of the physical classes. This type of charging (I'm gonna call it 'Prepare' for now), would not have any sort of penalty attached to it, it's just there to indictate that you are preparing an attack.

What you guys think?
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Post by: akwikone on August 13, 2009, 01:34:13 pm
Interesting, the ai would be cool to see, it would (or at least I think it would)be a lot more catious about using an action, though it also would be more inclined to just attack than do any thing else, dependent apon charge time of course.  It also makes me kinda want to put a charge time on the attack command(if possable, I know you can't make it trigger counter magic, so I'm unsure how editable it is).

Side note: Mass Effect tactics anyone?  I was thinking of having the the job tree split into three paths: Biotic(stuff like float and don't move for lift, and stop(modified so when stopped you don't take damage) for stasis), Tech(don't act, equip and stat breaks), and Weaponry(abilities like carnage(boosted weapon damage and aoe), and overkill(multi hitting ability)).  Thoughts?
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Post by: crystal on August 14, 2009, 05:26:27 am
Can Chicken status raise Fa instead of Br?
Then it'll be possible to insert some kind of "deployment points".
Like all jobs have innate Chicken. So they have limited turns.
How about it?
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 18, 2009, 02:45:32 pm
Here's a reworked Item skill set I've been working on

Item
Bandage: recovers a small amount of hp (healing staff formula)
Transfusion: transfers hp from the user to the target (wish formula)
Potion: Grants Regen status to target, 100% success
Phoenix Down: revives unit
Remedy: Cancels: Poison, Blind, Silence, Don't Move, Don't Act, Oil
Maiden's Kiss: Cancels: Frog, Sleep, Berserk
Soft: Cancels: Petrify, Charm, Confusion
Holy Water: Cancels: Zombie, Blood Suck, Death Sentence
Acid Flask: inflicts MA/2 * MA water element damage, cancels Regen
Poison Flask: inflicts MA/2 * MA dark element damage, inflicts Poison
Oil Flask: inflicts oil status, 100% success.
Magebane: deals damage equal to target's current mp
Black Thread:  self destructs, inflicts death sentence 100%
Elixir: Target gains a level
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Post by: LastingDawn on August 18, 2009, 03:05:55 pm
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"Here's a reworked Item skill set I've been working on

Item
Bandage: recovers a small amount of hp (healing staff formula)
Transfusion: transfers hp from the user to the target (wish formula)
Potion: Grants Regen status to target, 100% success
Phoenix Down: revives unit
Remedy: Cancels: Poison, Blind, Silence, Don't Move, Don't Act, Oil
Maiden's Kiss: Cancels: Frog, Sleep, Berserk
Soft: Cancels: Petrify, Charm, Confusion
Holy Water: Cancels: Zombie, Blood Suck, Death Sentence
Acid Flask: inflicts MA/2 * MA water element damage, cancels Regen
Poison Flask: inflicts MA/2 * MA dark element damage, inflicts Poison
Oil Flask: inflicts oil status, 100% success.
Magebane: deals damage equal to target's current mp
Black Thread:  self destructs, inflicts death sentence 100%
Elixir: Target gains a level


Bandage -Healing Staff uses MA * Y, but Items never assign a Y, they only use  "Z".

Transfusion - Wish should do well, no concerns on that .

Potion- Yep that works.

Remedy,Maiden's Kiss, Holy Water, Soft - I see no reason why not.

Acid Flask, Oil Flask - Items can't be assigned an element, nor can that formula 100% inflict status.

Magebane - Works well enough

Black Thread -   Sounds good.

Elixir - Very creative. I like it.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 18, 2009, 03:15:07 pm
healing staff formula actually uses the weapon formula and reverses healing and damage, so if you stick it on an axe, it'll do random healing using that formula, on an item, it uses the unarmed damage formula to determine amount healed

as for acid flask and Poison Flask, I overlooked the lack of an element assignment box, but the point is that they do a small amount of damage with a chance to add poison or remove regen status. Oil Flask simply uses the 100% hit formula, and does no damage, so it's fine.
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Post by: LastingDawn on August 18, 2009, 03:20:27 pm
You're right... not sure what I was thinking there, haha! Very good points made.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 01, 2009, 02:38:19 pm
Idea for new skillsets for Rafa and Malak, I call them Ward and Snare, they function like song/dance skills, in that they repeat their effects at regular intervals, except they target a specific area of the battlefield and do not discriminate between friend and foe

Rafa - Ward

Healing Field - Restores hp at regular intervals, damages undead

Concealing Mist - Adds Defending status at regular intervals

Freedom Rune - regularly cancels Don't Act, Don't Move, Slow and Stop

Lifestream - revives all within at regular intervals, those revived come back with 1% of thier max hp.


Malak - Snare

Acid Trap - deal water damage at regluar intervals and may cancel protect and shell

Mine Field - inflicts earth damage at regular intervals, may inflict sleep

Tar Pit - inflicts slow at regular intervals

Poison Gas - deals dark damage equal to 12% of the target's max hp and inflicts poison

Also, a small edit to the item skillset revision I posted, I realized that poison status counters and dispells regen status anyway, so the acid flask's purpose was rendered redunant, so I think it'd be better to change that item to deal damage with a chance of dispelling protect and shell status instead.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on September 01, 2009, 05:52:09 pm
Interesting concepts with Rafa and Malak.  It reminds me of those ward items and the troll witchdoctor hero from WarCraft 3.  It's a little hard to emulate considering it will continuously drain mp as it is being used, but if you can balance it out appropriately, I definitely approve of the concept.
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Post by: Mental_Gear on September 02, 2009, 11:31:43 am
Nice ideas - just a shame patch stacking isn't possible, otherwise edits for single jobs are sort of redundant.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 02, 2009, 01:44:58 pm
not really, at least, not when the patcher allows us to fairly easilly cherry pick from other's ideas to make our own patches, it can be a time-consuming pain to alter stuff, patch, playtest, alter more stuff, make a clean iso, patch again, ect. ect. but that's the hardest bit, and it isn't so much difficult as time-consuming.
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Post by: Helchilde on September 10, 2009, 04:09:04 pm
Hey everyone, I'm working on a patch that lowers the ct but increases the mp of all magic spells. It also makes Malak/Rafa useful by turning random fire off. I might make some job changes later. Like adding healing abilities to Holy/Divine Knight and Black magic to Dark knight.

I'm also thinking about getting rid of all monsters and reworking the ENTD to make story battles harder.
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Post by: Cheetah on September 10, 2009, 07:53:19 pm
Sounds like a good starting point Helchilde, thanks for posting this in the correct thread. Why get rid of monsters though?
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Post by: SilvasRuin on September 10, 2009, 08:39:10 pm
I really see no benefit to removing monsters.  If they aren't tough enough to make a difference, buff them.  If you don't want the player to get strong characters that don't need equipment, make all monsters immune to Invite.
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Post by: jimmyjw88 on September 10, 2009, 10:24:23 pm
Remove monster?? NOOO!! Then all that's left are humans, which is not the FF way (I think).
Yes. Silvas has a point there.
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Post by: Vanya on September 11, 2009, 01:07:20 pm
Yeah, there are no FF games that ditch the monsters. That might work for a hack that is an entirely new game, but it would certainly kill some of the variety.
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Post by: Tersius on September 11, 2009, 01:16:33 pm
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"If you don't want the player to get strong characters that don't need equipment, make all monsters immune to Invite.

Or just don't include the skill "Beast Talk" or w/e it's called.  It means the other talk skills won't work on them, but who cares?

Wouldn't removing Chocobos from an FF game be close to blasphemy? :P (This is a sarcastic statement btw)
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Post by: SilvasRuin on September 11, 2009, 03:42:30 pm
It would be blasphemy.  Chocobos are the #1 most recurring characters.
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Post by: boomkick on September 11, 2009, 04:00:17 pm
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"It would be blasphemy.  Chocobos are the #1 most recurring characters.

i think your wrong, the most occuring character is Cid (if you include names).
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Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 11, 2009, 07:03:53 pm
No doubt, cid is as plain as any day.

But still, chocobo is the #1 most recurring character , FOR BEING THE PROTAGONIST. lol. :)
*I think.
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Post by: Helchilde on September 11, 2009, 07:41:55 pm
I wont get rid of all the monsters. I'll keep the chocobo, goblin, panther, undead, and dragon. I also will be keeping the ultima and Archaic(sp?) demons. I am going to try to use the ability slots that the monsters have to make new ones, like wind, earth, water spells. I was thinking about replacing the monster sprites with special character sprites.

I always wanted to play as Kefka in FFT. :twisted:
Title: FFT 1.3: Battle rush
Post by: Dome on September 19, 2009, 06:05:42 am
An idea I had some moments ago...a FFT 1.3 focused only on battles
Let me explain

FFT 1.3: Battle Rush (Based on FFT 1.3028 with vanilla fights (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3514))
- Every Job available since beginning, every ability costs 0 JP and every piece of non-rare equipment available since beginning at 0 gil (So you can start to play with everything you want without worring of jp, money, etc...)
- Every enemy in every battle will be at level 99 with set equipment and RSM (A lot of rare stuff around, sometimes protected by maintenance sometimes not...in a similar way to 1.3)

In this way, having every ability-job-equipment asap, player will just focus on battles, that will be very hard (Every enemy will have good setup and equipment ;P)
What do you think about it guys?
It's easy to develop this patch, it's just a matter of messing around with FFTPatcher...
Would you like to play it?
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Post by: Kunfusion on September 19, 2009, 07:37:37 am
Dome, I really like the idea.

I'd thought about doing something like that before I actually joined the site. I even messed around with creating something like that, however, it really singles a ton of potentially useful equipment to just a handful. If the "late-game" equipment pool was more diverse for the four chapters, I think it'd make the experience far better. Of course, doing something like that could send the game in a different direction. I just think it'd add to a more enjoyable playthrough. I just don't much like the idea of wasting the "early-game" equipment.
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Post by: Sephirot24 on September 20, 2009, 06:37:24 pm
Sounds great Dome! I also though of this some time ago. It's like a challenge patch, like "find the right strategy / combination and move on". Sounds fun! :)
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Post by: thi13en on September 26, 2009, 03:13:49 am
Im thinkin of starting a project mainly focusing during the 50 Years War.

FFT : 50 Years War

Basically you play the role of young knight Balbanes Beoulve, the hero who put up a sword to end the tragic war that happen in early Ivalice Kingdom. Roughly the event of this war is very little of information in detail as we only known the general story of the war.

Ideas :
- Because of the limited hack, create a fictional 50 Years War, using what known information that can be use as a guide.
- The chapters title change to Year xx/yy, this give an idea about the course of the story (exp The Meager -> Year: 25th of the war)
- No job editing yet, like new jobs/skillset. Use what is available for now.
- Some monster not appear at all, give an idea how bad the war is (monster fleeing for life :P

Because I have a basic knowledge of editing and sprite making, this project may take a while.
:gay:
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Post by: Cheetah on September 26, 2009, 06:25:13 am
The Search for Phantom Thief Zerro

Special Note: So I'm bored and can't do any real hacking where I am at so here is an idea that I have been kicking around for a couple days. I'm not really prepared to do this project, but I thought it was an interesting idea and could be a good learning experience so I thought I would throw it out there.

Story: This would presumably take place early on in Ramza and Delita's training at the Academy before they ran into Algus (presumably such a time exists). So the duo hear about a bounty/warrant out for Phantom Thief Zerro so they go traipsing across the country side looking for him. Not particularly original, but it doesn't need to be, it just needs to make opportunities for lots of detours.

Premise: So this is the important bit. The main idea behind this patch would to have it all be about making choices and branching paths. The game has the full capability to do such things and we understand essentially all of it, but it is never really used in the original game. So I would kind of like to make a really nonlinear adventure with many different branching and interconnected paths. Basically an experiment in how creative we can get in battle conditions and having previous actions influence later play in a variety of different ways. So making a few different choices would lead to a whole different story and even if you are going through some similar events they could be played out rather uniquely.

Example: So patch starts out with Delita and Ramza in the Academy Hall and they here a rumor about a bounty on our antagonist posted in the local tavern. Delita says "Should we go take a look at this wanted poster?". Branching paths start with Choice 1:

"Sure" -> Go directly to Tavern and hear that the thief may be at the Plains
"Not right now" -> Get recruited to go investigate a disturbance in Goug

After the Tavern the boys could just head straight to Mandallia Plains, however if the player happens to look at the actual rumors/propositions there will be one saying that there has been a bunch of thefts in Dorter. If the duo go to Dorter this particular fight at Mandallia plains will never appear again. But if they go to Mandallia they get a bit of a surprise, could get an ally if they make the choice and put the correct character into critical status, and can go to Dorter afterwards. But what will these choices affect in Dorter?

Meanwhile, if the pair are in Goug they are facing a string of battles with the potential to make a new allie, but are getting no closer to finding Zerro. After their adventures in Goug they will return and likely start along the same path, but new party members are likely to activate new events.

Limitations: In all reality very few. Now that we understand the structure of Battle Event Conditionals and general Booleans there are lots and lots of options and twists you can create. A bit more research into Worldmap unlocking stuff, but that is about it. Since this is about making lots of different complicated choices you probably wouldn't want to make it very long, but it has high replay value so you wouldn't need to.

Other Aspects: For better control and variety, I think that having no true generics would be necessary. There is just no good way to control what generics do and having them around limits the fun. This doesn't mean there wont be generic like characters though, just no inviting or recruiting. I don't even want to try and fit this into the overall plot of FFT, so avoid main story characters. It will be more fun to just throw in random guys and show off some cool custom jobs/sprites anyways. This will make for some interesting dynamics since Delita and Ramza will essentially have to play through parts carefully to recruit allies, otherwise it will be hard to make it very far on their own. Part of me wants to say no exp, no leveling, no random encounters, and no job change but I think it would take away from the actual gameplay aspect of everything and really wouldn't add anything. Maybe down the line though we will realize that the patch is so relatively short that such limitations enhance the gameplay.

What needs to happen: Like I said, I really can't commit to this project. But here are some things that might make me more likely to do it or support the efforts of others.

1) Thief Zerro Sprite: I would recommend using the 40 year old man in the suit as a base. Turn his suit jacket into a sleeveless vest and get rid of the tail flaps. Black pants, white shift, dark green vest, grey hair, and green eyes (I would recommend sharing lots of shades between the white/grey/black). I nice neat mustache and a very crisp haircut, I would recommend the hatless thief perhaps. An alternate version with a top hat would of course be required.
2) A bit more research into World Map drawing and battle starting conditions would be necessary. Link to thread: http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2911 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2911)
3) A more complete ATTACK.OUT editor. Not that I'm pointing any fingers or anything...
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Post by: jimmyjw88 on September 26, 2009, 08:19:31 am
Hmm....A different event and battle for the choice that the player made. This is interesting.
A Thief Zorro sprite...Hmm...
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Post by: Vanya on September 27, 2009, 04:54:45 pm
Very interesting. I think it would be a worth endeavor.
It even has potential as a series of gaiden stories.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on September 27, 2009, 07:37:44 pm
If that is to be done, how about making newbie versions of all the jobs so it maintains the trainee feel?

Also, for the phantom thief, I can't help but think of a male thief with a female thief's bandanna stretching down over the eyes with eye holes , and a black palette for all the clothing.
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Post by: LastingDawn on September 27, 2009, 07:47:10 pm
Strange, I always saw him as an elderly gentleman with a top hat and cane similar to...

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/shadowhearts/images/3/35/Albert_Simon.jpg)
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Post by: Cheetah on September 27, 2009, 07:53:58 pm
Jimmy: If you wanted to take on the Zerro sprite that would be awesome. But like I said no pressure.

Vanya: Yeah it is meant to be fun and have lots of replay value, while teaching me lots about battle and worldmap flow.

SilvasRuin: Good thought, part part of the appeal of Zerro as a character is that he doesn't really turn out to be who you expect. On that note, your idea sounds like a great idea for a decoy Phantom Thief Zerro. Man you could have a lot of fun with that.

Lasting Dawn: We may or may not have had a conversation about that at some point... I like him without the jacket and just the vest for the main sprite though, I thief needs some freedom of movement. Though I suppose having hiding places in a jacket is important too.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 27, 2009, 10:39:49 pm
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t140/SkipSandwich/Fanart___Trilby__s_Notes_by_samisi.jpg)

The phantom thief Zerro propisitions make me think of Trilby more then anything
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Post by: jimmyjw88 on September 28, 2009, 02:50:01 am
Alright Cheetah, I'll give it a shot ^^
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Post by: Oblivion on October 05, 2009, 12:50:13 pm
Quote from: "thi13en"Im thinkin of starting a project mainly focusing during the 50 Years War.

FFT : 50 Years War

Basically you play the role of young knight Balbanes Beoulve, the hero who put up a sword to end the tragic war that happen in early Ivalice Kingdom. Roughly the event of this war is very little of information in detail as we only known the general story of the war.

Ideas :
- Because of the limited hack, create a fictional 50 Years War, using what known information that can be use as a guide.
- The chapters title change to Year xx/yy, this give an idea about the course of the story (exp The Meager -> Year: 25th of the war)
- No job editing yet, like new jobs/skillset. Use what is available for now.
- Some monster not appear at all, give an idea how bad the war is (monster fleeing for life :P

Because I have a basic knowledge of editing and sprite making, this project may take a while.
:gay:

I'd like to see something like this. Playing as Balbanes has always been something I wanted to do and the 50 years war would make it funner. Be sure to include other characters like a younger Wiegraf, etc.
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on October 09, 2009, 02:51:53 am
Sup all. I am working on my hack for some time and i think this is ready for posting. But before that i need to know if i made eneuf changes.
(Testing it for some time it but still need more testing)
So i want to make a demo so other people can help me improve it. (Mosly for bugs i missed)

For now here my hack progress :

1.All story battles enemies has a bit more that 2X the normal level in vannilla.

2.Enemies has acess to rare items at level 80+ (50 for Elxirs)

3.Enemies are smarter wen equiping abilities. Alot more learned too.

4.Monsters are stronger/has some new skills. And was given a few debuff imunity.

5.Changed the items levels so you wont get the huge equipement disavantage.

6.Some enemies can use sword skills.

7.Sword skills now cost MP.

8.Changed about half of the ENTD for random battles (Expect to see dark ramza and others...but some was unchanged)

9.Some ENTD give War trophies.

10.Changed many of the enemies story battles.

11.A few Costom made Abilities.

12.Most Spells has reduced Charge time. Same for Charge.

13.Add new Abilities for some jobs. And transfered a few and removed a few.

14.Zodiak can be learned normally for 1900 JP.

15.No-charge and Teleport 2 Can be learned for 2500 JP. (Ninja has teleport/Blue mage has No-Charge)

16.Changed Most of the equipements strength and the descriptions for em.

17.All armors add  +1 WA and Dagger add +1 SP

18.Conter Flood work on most attacks. And flood dammage was buffed a bit.

19.Potions are stronger : Potion = 50, HI-Potion = 120 and X-Potion 250.Aslo cost more gil.

20.Ether are stronger : Ether = 50, HI-Ether = 100.

21.Most Items Found using Move-Item is much better. (Now this is actually usefull to use)

22.All job need 1 more level that normal to unlock. (Excluding Mime thats got removed. see bottom)

23.Money gained during battles is halfed.

24.Level down traps = Removed.

25.New class : Blue Mage. (Calculator is remplaced. Aslo made a toturial to list all learnable blue magic...And Daravon was fired after that)

26.Reduced the monster insane PM. (But still higher that yours)

27.All level stats gain at the same rate for all jobs.

28 Truth/Un-Truth always hit 6 times. (But now cost MP)

(Needed to kill mime class so the enemies can learn alot more habilities)

What do you think? Ready for Submiting or need to do some more stuff before?
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Post by: Dome on October 09, 2009, 07:37:43 am
Quote from: "SolidSnakeDog"15.No-charge and Teleport 2 Can be learned for 2500 JP. (Ninja has teleport/Blue mage has No-Charge)
End of game
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on October 09, 2009, 08:01:52 am
Dome says :
15.No-charge and Teleport 2 Can be learned for 2500 JP. (Ninja has teleport/Blue mage has No-Charge)

End of game


See... Thats the reison wy i posted it BEFORE submiting it. To get a few tips and junk and not doing any stupid stuff. i will just remove em and...that it. No harm done.  :wink:
What about the other changes? There are alright right?
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Post by: Dome on October 09, 2009, 08:03:47 am
It seems a lot similar to 1.3, correct me if I'm wrong...
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on October 09, 2009, 08:16:22 am
Nope very different actually. Enemies dont folow your level/ the ENTD was changed but nothing i taked form 1.3.
Same to items excluding the daggers. This have Blue mage and the 1.3 has Sage...Changed the items gain using move-find-item 1.3 did not. The monster poach was totally done by me.

I may aslo add a few sprites i got form this site later.  :)
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Post by: Asmo X on October 09, 2009, 08:21:51 am
This just seems like a personal-type patch. Theres nothing about it that's really going to draw the interest of a large amount of people.
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on October 09, 2009, 08:29:23 am
Well...sort off.

but i know something is missing, something important...something...like sprites or something...but sprites will not make it much better. Any tips for using something that will fill the *Holes* so people can be more interested in playing this?
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on October 24, 2009, 04:11:56 pm
a new story? like Asmo said, this is more of a personal patch
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on October 25, 2009, 10:58:41 am
Never mind this patch anymore. im working on an different one.
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Post by: Pickle Girl Fanboy on October 26, 2009, 03:14:13 pm
Random Question:
Is it possible, at this very moment, to make a hack where every event presents a choice which changes, well, everything to come?  Something vaguely like Tactics Ogre?

Event 1: A or B?

Event 2A: C or D?

Event 2B: E or F?

This is simplifying it.
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Post by: philsov on October 27, 2009, 10:01:35 am
Quote from: "death is the road to awe"Random Question:
Is it possible, at this very moment, to make a hack where every event presents a choice which changes, well, everything to come?  Something vaguely like Tactics Ogre?

Event 1: A or B?

Event 2A: C or D?

Event 2B: E or F?

This is simplifying it.

IANAH, but from my understanding, we can change battle conditions, we can change character dialogue based on choices (Algus at Zeakden), we can change the order in which battles occur, but we can't create if/thens regarding the next battle, in either setup or placement.

What we can do is rig up several different scenarios (exactly to the tune of TO), and create several minipatches in a choose your own adventure style.  For example, chapter 1 will be the same.  You make a choice at the end of chapter 1, and then have two possible chapter 2's.  You make them seperately, attack.out and script and entd and all, and the player then grabs the correlating patch.  Then you get another choice, and so forth.  It'll play out just like TO, but would certainly be less automated.
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Post by: Xifanie on October 27, 2009, 10:12:24 am
Quote from: "philsov"IANAH, but from my understanding, we can change battle conditions, we can change character dialogue based on choices (Algus at Zeakden), we can change the order in which battles occur, but we can't create if/thens regarding the next battle, in either setup or placement.
the placement woudl require another event. but for the setup yes but we have to keep in mind that the ENTD only stores 16 units. The spritesheet limit won't matter until the sprites are actually drawn. that means you can use a certain amount of the 16 units in whatever way you wish.

But I'm not 100% sure about the 16 units parts. I don't know how exactly the unit loading works so we may be limtied to 11-16 units depending on the situation.
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Post by: philsov on October 27, 2009, 10:25:20 am
Quotethe placement woudl require another event.

Can we make it go to say, Mandalia Plains or Sweegy Woods, based off a choice in Gariland?
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Post by: Xifanie on October 27, 2009, 11:02:05 am
Yeah of course. It works the same way as subquests does. You can split into as many paths as you want and then end up at the same point.
Haven't you checked the World Map Conditionals? I made a spreadsheet for that.
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Post by: Cheetah on October 27, 2009, 11:15:10 am
Quote from: "philsov"
Quotethe placement woudl require another event.

Can we make it go to say, Mandalia Plains or Sweegy Woods, based off a choice in Gariland?

I know that you can do this with event instrucitons, and I'm nearly certain it can be done with World Map instructions as well. So I'm pretty sure what Death was asking about can be done. It was the primary bases of my patch idea that I mentioned a page or so ago.
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Post by: Pickle Girl Fanboy on October 29, 2009, 02:18:43 pm
Permutations and combonations, that's what I'm thinking of.  If I remember right, a permutation is like every possible outcome of a decision, and a combonation is a permutation with the repeats cut out.  Isn't there some kind of formula to determine the number of possible outcomes of say, four consecutive coin tosses?  And another formula to get the total number of unique outcomes?

This is relevant for the kind of game I want to make.  Multiple Paths.  Now, the question is, will there be multiple paths to reach each possible ending, or will the game only allow unique paths?  Will the game be a permutation tree or a combonation tree, plot-wise?

I'm pretty sure none of what I'm babbling about is possible unless the game can be expanded, right?

Back on my crazy idea-train.  The very idea of permutation and combonation is relevant to storytelling because every story is, in its infancy, every possible path.  The great weakness of every form of media prior to video games is that it could only tell a single story.

A book cannot tell what would happen if every possible path was explored; there is not enough paper in the world.  Neither can a movie, a song, a dance, a painting, or a poem.  (and what is a story but a poem told with events rather than words?)

But a video game can.

Imagine a hack that could tell ALL the stories.  Something you could play every day of your life until you die and experience something new every time; life in miniature; life reflected to infinity in a pair of mirrors, no two alike.
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Post by: LastingDawn on October 29, 2009, 04:05:42 pm
Well... it's a very lofty dream... but FFT does have more than enough events to have quite a few branching paths.
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Post by: Dome on October 29, 2009, 09:20:23 pm
Random idea I had just now (Don't worry, I dont want to start another patch with it, but someone could find this useful)
FFTA has one thing that FFT doesn't: the Defense and magic defense stat
We can recreate them in FFT too, but we must sacrifice some shitty ability
Let me explain:
Take the shitty ability that almost no-one use (Move on lava, any ground, Jump+1 +2 +3, catch, gilgame heart, and so on...)
Let's change them into:
Defense up 1 (Reduce physical damage by 5%)
Defense up 2 (Reduce physical damage by 10%)
Defense up 3 (Reduce physical damage by 15%)
Defense up 4 (Reduce physical damage by 20%)
Defense up 5 (Reduce physical damage by 25%)
Now, remove this ability from every job, so that the player cannot learn them, and give them as innate to every class
For example, a Knight should have defense up 4 innate, because he can usually endure lot of damage, a priest/chemist should have defense up 2 or 1, and so on...
You can also do this with magic defense up, in this way you will effectively create the "defense" stat and "magic defense" stat, making it a number that changes from 1 to 5
You can also create different tiers of attack up, so you can also create an "Attack" and "Magic attack" stat
What do you think of this idea?
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on October 29, 2009, 10:56:39 pm
This is  very interesting. But this is imposible right now to have more that a single kind of *Defense UP* or Attack Up at a time.
Correct me if i'm worng...(Unless you do a ASM hack for it...)
But losing 20 support slots?...not sure if i like the trade off.
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Post by: Archael on October 30, 2009, 12:39:48 am
it'd be kinda the same as having the jobs with different HP Multipliers (which they do currently)

DEFENSE UP + MDEFUP is just effectively X% more Max HP depending on how much HP you have, that's basically it (I'm not going to get into EHP calculations + damage reduction for brevity's sake), with varying levels of effectiveness over the actual HP stat depending on how much HP you have

example

Knight has 200% HP
Priest has 120% HP
Squire has 100% HP

etc
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Post by: SilvasRuin on November 17, 2009, 04:31:48 pm
I had an idea that is likely well beyond my ability, but some people might be interested in it.  A patch based on games like Front Mission.
All graphics would have to be changed to mechs, which is perhaps the most daunting part of it.

Stats:
--PA and MA would become Generator/Power Output and Aim, not necessarily in that order.
--HP would remain the same and depend heavily on the armor equipped.
--MP would become ammo.  All jobs will have 0 MP by default, so ammo will have to come from equipped ammo packs.
--Movement and Jump would mostly depend on the armor type equipped.
--Speed will be very low and come from equipment.

Equipment:
--All equipment will give Speed.  The heavier the item is supposed to be, the less speed it will give.
--Weapons would all have to be renewable in some fashion, so they would all be 1-2 range melee or weapons that use a generator and not ammo.
--Shields would be specialized in guarding against non-physical attacks like beam weaponry.
--Mantles would be placed in the Shield slot as well and would specialize in guarding against physical weaponry, essentially being armored plating.
--Helms will become large ammo packs and give high amounts of MP/Ammo but will give less speed than "Hats."
--Hats will become small ammo packs and give a moderate amount of MP/Ammo but will give more speed than helms.
--Armor will become heavy frames and give high HP but low speed and movement.
--Clothing will become light frames and give moderate HP, speed, and movement.
--Robes will become hover frames and give low HP but high speed and moderate movement.  They will have innate Float.
--Accessories other than Mantles will become various modifications with effects categorized by accessory type.

Jobs:
--Stat modifiers will be fairly identical except for PA and MA, and small differences in HP and movement.
--Multipliers will be small to allow for greater significance in equipment.
--Growths will be very small, coming into effect maybe every ten levels to allow for a pilot growing more skilled in certain areas.  That or there will be a very low enforced level cap and exp will be gained very slowly.
--Most differences in jobs will come from the types of equipment they can have.  Since there are two different types for "Shields" and "Hats" and three types for "Armor," diversity can be achieved through creative themes in what can be equipped.

Abilities:
--Each job will have all its action abilities based around a single weapon and multiple ways to use it, such as using a Flamethrower for a wide spray, a focused jet, or something in-between.
--Abilities that use up MP/Ammo will be stronger, useful for quick bursts of damage, and the amount of MP/Ammo used will scale to power.  (The scale will grow more inefficient as power rises to make sure the lower ammo weapons/abilities remain viable.)  Charge times will be rare for all weapons but the most long-range.  (This will be for aiming.)
--Abilities that don't use MP/Ammo will be considered energy weapons that utilize a generator.  Charge times will be common if not mandatory to make up for infinite ammo.  They will also be weaker than other abilities due to having infinite ammo.
--Healing will be rare but not nonexistent.  All healing WILL use ammo as you can't repair something that is mechanical without using something up.  Innate Regen will be a unique exception due to inability to make it cost ammo.
--Items will become mostly ammo refills and light repairs.

Elements:
--Fire, Thunder, and Ice would be used for "nonphysical" weaponry.
----Fire would be given to explosive weapons.  Explosions would be dampened in stormy weather.
----Thunder would be given to electrical weapons.  Most (not all) electrical weapons would be based around interfering with enemy systems, sensors, and EMPs.  Plasma weaponry would also fall under this.
----Ice would be given to heat-based weapons such as napalm, flamethrowers, lasers, etc.  The reason for this is that going from very cold to very hot can be very damaging to metal, so this setup works well for blizzards.
--Water, Wind, and Earth would be used for "physical" weaponry as it is not affected by weather.  Which is which doesn't matter much.
----Piercing weaponry would mostly be in the form of ammo-using abilities such as sniper rifles and would be effective against heavy frames.
----Bladed weaponry would mostly be in the form of melee weapons and would be most effective against light frames.
----Blunt weaponry would mostly be in the form of melee weapons (and maybe cannonballs) and would be most effective against fragile flight frames.
--Holy and Dark currently have no concepts or roles to fill.  Nanotech and virus/hacking maybe?



And to provide an example of what kind of stuff could be done with it:
Concept:  Experimental chassis with a network of nanobots running throughout it.
Base stats notes:  Very low base HP.  Moderate stats overall.  Innate Regen from the nanobots.
Frames:  Light only.
Ammo:  Small only.
Shielding:  Energy focused.
Secondary weapons:  Nothing (bare fists)
Primary weapons (abilities):  Self-repair and augmentation.
Summary:  As far as stats go, it should be a mediocre model at best.  Where it should shine is longevity due to the nanobots.  It is likely to need some backup in the form of ammo refills to make sure it can continue to use its self-support abilities.  Energy weapons would be best for it so as to save it for the augments.  It is intended to be a one-of-a-kind experimental model.



I doubt any person could do this alone.  Considering Mercenaries and the other projects going on, I doubt this will be touched for a while, even if it is liked, but it's an idea I find intriguing and I figured I'd put it out there.
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Post by: Sephirot24 on November 17, 2009, 11:58:19 pm
Sounds very interesting. I think that imputing all the text changes, and mostly the spriting part would be the stuff which'd take the most time. That, if you don't change the story at all... although can you imagine Ramza as a Mech sprite entering his dying father's chamber :P
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Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2009, 12:11:50 am
@ SilvasRuin:  I talked about a similar idea about a month or so ago with Saigas, Hana, Eternal248, etc, though we ended up moving more towards a U.C.-era homage Mobile Suit Gundam themed game than a custom-mech theme like Front Mission or Armored Core.

Overall though, the main problem was graphics - everything else seemed more than doable by someone who actually knows what they're doing (aka, not me), and I had ideas for the job tree and etc going on.  Again, main problem was graphics.

I could go over the ideas I had in more detail back then, if you like.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on November 18, 2009, 02:30:46 am
I certainly wouldn't mind it.  It's probably worth pursuing when the current big projects begin approaching completion.
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Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2009, 02:58:47 am
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"I certainly wouldn't mind it.  It's probably worth pursuing when the current big projects begin approaching completion.

My original idea was Mobile Suit Gundam-styled, remember, so having units that could overlap for both sides on the Job Tree was a no-no.

The take on this was to split the Job Tree in two, using some ridiculous Job Prerequisite bullshit so that each faction got at least 8 generic Jobs to switch between, with the Special Units not being access any of the Job Tree beyond their unique Job (which, given my base idea, left most unique units in the equivalent of a Gundam, is understandable imo).  I had a couple ways of doing this, but I can't remember them all right now.  Simplest seem to just make the enemy jobs unable to be unlocked on the Job Tree, meaning locking Special Units into their Job would be the main problem, though I think there's a way to pull if off.  To compensate for only being in 1 Job, Special Units would obviously be able to learn a wider range of R/S/M.  Another idea was to make them Worker 8-style monsters, but Mike said that limited animations.

In terms of attacking, my idea there was to simply make each mech's skillset represent all its different attacks.  I'm assuming animating the different weapons for such would be a logistical nightmare, though.  If it's possible to make skills that can only be used while "X" weapon is equipped, that'd easily remedy the Skillset problem by letting players equip weapons to allow them to use different attacks during different battles.  The latter would be my preferred option, for obvious reasons.  Then, it's just a matter of making the standard "Attack" command always reference the bare-fisted animation / use one specific formula, and make the bare-fisted animation into that unit's melee weapon strike, such as beam saber or whatever. (If possible, if not just turn it off and make an ability that does the same basic thing).  That's the basic idea, anyway.  Obviously there's playtesting and seeing what works / doesn't work, since I don't do ASM or somesuch hacking at this time, but it's a start.

The main problems after that would be animations / sprites, and the maps.  If you don't give a damn about the scale, the maps aren't even an issue, I suppose.  So it's getting all the sprites done from pretty much 100% scratch and somehow changing animations or whatever.  Ideas I had on a general scale here involved stuff like making the dead animation involve a shitton of explosions, etc.  Gameplay-wise, I considered making all non-generic classes immune to Crystal status, if possible.

Finally, story, but since I've got a lot of pre-hacking planning already down for a Mobile Suit Gundam-homage hack, I'd be able to personally get that done quickly.  If you go for a Front Mission kinda thing, you'll obviously need to be getting to work on that.

Basic overview of my idea as I described it to Saigas and Hana, don't think I left anything out.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on November 18, 2009, 04:03:21 am
Explosions in the death animation wouldn't work as the death animation is the hit frame then dead frame.
The scale of the buildings throughout the maps... well except for indoors stuff, the scale actually would appear MORE fitting for mechs, at least in my opinion.
The way you mentioned seems to be the only way to make the weapons look right.  I don't think I'd go through the trouble for that though.  I'd just worry about making the attack animations at least seem like it is plausible it originated from a weapon on the mech.
The gameplay wouldn't necessarily dictate much for the story, so I think that's a bit of a moot point.

Gundam, Armored Core, Front Mission, it doesn't matter what the basis is as long as you don't give different factions exclusive mechs.  Actually... you can do that without screwing with the job tree.  There should be enough special jobs that if you don't go overboard with the playable ones, you could simply use them for a fair number of the enemy exclusive mechs.

I personally feel making the mechs customizable would be superior in every way than making them all static.  The game would grow far too boring otherwise.  This isn't some shooter or action game.  If there isn't some solid diversity in what the sides are throwing at each other, it is going to get old fast.  I really can't think of any benefits to having static mechs unless you just want to be stubborn about what can and can't be used (like for instance trying to mimic the rigid mech types of Gundam).

I also can't really agree with trying to mimic any specific source too closely.  FFT's engine is going to have things it can do and things it can't do, and there's just no way there's any source it can fully mimic without issue.  Better to get creative and make what you can with what you have and come up with your own concepts.
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Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2009, 04:57:49 am
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"The scale of the buildings throughout the maps... well except for indoors stuff, the scale actually would appear MORE fitting for mechs, at least in my opinion.

I'll agree there.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"The gameplay wouldn't necessarily dictate much for the story, so I think that's a bit of a moot point.

I just meant the story would need to be redone.  I can't see a bunch of mechs huddled around a coffee table discussing Marquis Elmdor de Limberry, I'm sorry.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Gundam, Armored Core, Front Mission, it doesn't matter what the basis is as long as you don't give different factions exclusive mechs.  Actually... you can do that without screwing with the job tree.  There should be enough special jobs that if you don't go overboard with the playable ones, you could simply use them for a fair number of the enemy exclusive mechs.

You can do that, too.  It depends how many playable mechs you want as part of the standard job tree.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"I personally feel making the mechs customizable would be superior in every way than making them all static.  The game would grow far too boring otherwise.  This isn't some shooter or action game.  If there isn't some solid diversity in what the sides are throwing at each other, it is going to get old fast.  I really can't think of any benefits to having static mechs unless you just want to be stubborn about what can and can't be used (like for instance trying to mimic the rigid mech types of Gundam).

You missed my point there - the only rigid would obviously be factions, and potentially disabling equippable secondaries depending on how skill sets end up working, the second one being something that any mech based SRPG using the FFT engine may need to do anyway.  I guess the Specials would have a bit of rigidness to them, I suppose, but even in standard FFT your Specials are often best left in their main classes when in-use anyway, save a couple exceptions like Reis.

You would still have access to R/S/M, equipment... and if it can be done to make equipped items turn specific abilities on/off on a set, secondary skillsets, along with equippable stuffs as you said such as armor upgrades, etc.  I suppose the other form of rigidness would come from a faction based job tree... but I actually had plans to fix that via Join After Events that allowed you to get units that start as enemy mechs (in the way you sometimes get a Lancer that can't even be a Lancer via Invite in the regular game, etc), as well as dispersing 'captured' units into the enemy rosters.  Hopefully I can find a way to make the ones the player gets from Join After Events keep that one mech job open to be revisited later as well, but fuck me if I know anything about hacking to get that far yet.

The main reason I say the U.C. Era is also because it has the most amount of variance in its mechs while still keeping them all simple enough for an FFT-transition into SRPG-land.  That, and those series didn't suck ass.  That's pretty important.  Also because it's quick - source material is abundant to get it together graphically, which is the biggest challenge from what I can see, meaning focus can be given to the abilities / overall engines so that more mech based SRPGs could be made and actually have a working engine to base from.

Then again, I have the idea set rather well mentally and probably am not explaining it as well as I should.  But if things work they way they seem like they would in my head right now, I don't think diversity would be that big a deal, especially should that one aforementioned thing about weapon -> ability work.  But like I said, fuck me if I know if we can do that.  I spent too much time playing the hacks and such and not enough time making them.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"I also can't really agree with trying to mimic any specific source too closely.  FFT's engine is going to have things it can do and things it can't do, and there's just no way there's any source it can fully mimic without issue.  Better to get creative and make what you can with what you have and come up with your own concepts.

Plus, I suck at designing my own mechs.  I'm not gonna pretend like I'm any good at that.  Closest I get to at good at that is slapping something good together on Armored Core.  Seriously.
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Post by: Cheetah on November 18, 2009, 10:24:35 am
There are several 2D Isometric Front Mission games. There is a pretty good chance that one of them has sprites that are of a comparable size to the human sprites currently used.
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Post by: Vanya on November 18, 2009, 01:55:56 pm
Off the top of my head I'd say the in-battle sprites from either Front Mission 1 or 2 are closest in size.
But they'd still need some modification and extra frames to work correctly.
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Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2009, 02:03:53 pm
Quote from: "Cheetah"There are several 2D Isometric Front Mission games. There is a pretty good chance that one of them has sprites that are of a comparable size to the human sprites currently used.

If we could use those, that'd speed the design process up quite a bit, I would think.

Meaning we'd need animations and to get the general idea of how mech ability sets and such would work.  Once we have that, I think we'll have the most important part down - a working mech-based FFT that people can use as a base for pretty much any mech-based FFT hack, since I see a lot of mech games sharing a lot of the basic gameplay changes from normal FFT, such as however we end up handling secondary ability sets, and the job wheel in terms of two-faction, non-unit-overlapping armies.

EDIT:  Also, I've only played Front Mission 4, so I could be wrong, but doesn't that series handle your mech's sprite by-part (head, arms, legs, etc) in way of Armored Core?  If so, that doesn't seem like it'd translate over well.  Hence another reason for my choice in Mobile Suit Gundam over mech franchises - the base mechs look the same regardless of their equipment, meaning easy translation into a job tree and equipment setup.

Though considering how old the original Front Mission games are (iirc), it's possible they follow a more FFT-friendly sprite method.
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Post by: Vanya on November 18, 2009, 02:15:44 pm
IIRC Front mission lets you choose legs, arms, body, engine, and head.
It shouldn't be a big deal to text hack the equipment and slot labels to reflect something along those lines.
The only real problem I can foresee is in how the various weapons animate, especially for long range weapons like lasers and what not.
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Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2009, 02:28:23 pm
Quote from: "Vanya"IIRC Front mission lets you choose legs, arms, body, engine, and head.
It shouldn't be a big deal to text hack the equipment and slot labels to reflect something along those lines.
The only real problem I can foresee is in how the various weapons animate, especially for long range weapons like lasers and what not.

I didn't mean equipping.  The actual equipping doesn't seem like a big issue.

I mean that in those types of games, usually changing your equipment reflects a change in your sprite itself (new arms, etc).  That's something FFT can't reflect to my knowledge.  Though I suppose you can just use the different sprite parts in the game to assemble a sprite for each job slot, then make equipment that would make sense on static units, especially since it's again best to get the proof-of-concept down first.

My idea was to somehow make "Attack" always reference the barehanded animation, and make said barehanded animation that unit's melee weapon instead (possibly giving every mech in the game innate Martial Arts so said melees do good damage), then have equipped L and R weapons be referenced for instant-cast (potentially "MP" using) abilities (with all abilities that can't reference a proper weapon grayed out) that would simulate the unit's long ranged weapons in addition to actual abilities of the unit.

Thus the big question would actually be getting animations themselves, from what I can see, if done in that way.  But I don't hack, so this may not be possible for one reason or another, which would suck ass since it's such a simple way to fix the problem and allows secondary skillsets much more easily.
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Post by: Vanya on November 18, 2009, 05:39:12 pm
Right, that would be a hurdle.
That's an interesting idea.

I think it could be possible to have the mechs have individualized parts, but it would take a pretty hefty ASM hack(s).
The dirty, inefficient way to do it would be to use up all the sprites to reflect different combinations of parts, but then we'd probably only have a handful of base types to work with. If we had 4 each of bodies, arms, and legs we would need 64 sprites to represent the different combinations of parts.
The crazy ASM magic way would require completely rewriting the sprite loading routines.

Either way it would be far easier to just have the jobs represent a particular kind of mech.
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Post by: Cheetah on November 18, 2009, 08:09:21 pm
Frankly it sounds like you want to hack Front Mission, it would likely save you a lot of time.
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Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on November 18, 2009, 08:24:30 pm
Quote from: "Vanya"Right, that would be a hurdle.
That's an interesting idea.

I think it could be possible to have the mechs have individualized parts, but it would take a pretty hefty ASM hack(s).
The dirty, inefficient way to do it would be to use up all the sprites to reflect different combinations of parts, but then we'd probably only have a handful of base types to work with. If we had 4 each of bodies, arms, and legs we would need 64 sprites to represent the different combinations of parts.
The crazy ASM magic way would require completely rewriting the sprite loading routines.

Either way it would be far easier to just have the jobs represent a particular kind of mech.

I don't think we're going to find anyone who actually wants to do that kind of ridiculous ASM'ing.

Which is why I went with a base mech series that had standardized models.  That, and I'm totally not biased in any way towards it.  Not at all.

Quote from: "Cheetah"Frankly it sounds like you want to hack Front Mission, it would likely save you a lot of time.

But that's not as fun!

That and I've never even played the actual Front Mission games, myself, besides a little bit of aforementioned Front Mission 4.
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Post by: Cheetah on November 18, 2009, 10:58:58 pm
I recommend playing some of the early ones, they are available through multiple channels, and I think your desire to take on such a hacking project will likely be satiated.
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Post by: SilvasRuin on November 18, 2009, 11:11:56 pm
I've only been able to play the first, and I see possibilities in the FFT engine that Front Mission I didn't have.
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Post by: Xifanie on December 12, 2009, 04:07:26 pm
The idea is Asmo's:

An AI Tournament patch.
Yes, right now we're using 1.3 as a base for AI tournaments, but there are many cons to that. 1.3 needs to be rebalanced for multiplayer use. Just look: many skills cannot be accessed, golem is utterly broken, only the top available items are used, no tier 3 monsters, etc.
The goal of such a patch would be to create an item pool where every item has a different use, but in overall is not better or worse than another item in the same category. The same would go for monsters; tier 3 would not be superior to tier 1, only different. Everything would be balanced for multiplayer use only.
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Post by: woodenbandman on December 12, 2009, 10:04:30 pm
Give it a forum and I'll help brainstorm ideas.
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Post by: Dome on December 13, 2009, 03:46:51 am
Quote from: "Zodiac"The idea is Asmo's:

An AI Tournament patch.
Yes, right now we're using 1.3 as a base for AI tournaments, but there are many cons to that. 1.3 needs to be rebalanced for multiplayer use. Just look: many skills cannot be accessed, golem is utterly broken, only the top available items are used, no tier 3 monsters, etc.
The goal of such a patch would be to create an item pool where every item has a different use, but in overall is not better or worse than another item in the same category. The same would go for monsters; tier 3 would not be superior to tier 1, only different. Everything would be balanced for multiplayer use only.
That's a nice idea
At least it deserve a topic in new project, if not a forum section
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Post by: Blank on December 23, 2009, 03:02:33 pm
Quote from: "Zodiac"The idea is Asmo's:

An AI Tournament patch.
Yes, right now we're using 1.3 as a base for AI tournaments, but there are many cons to that. 1.3 needs to be rebalanced for multiplayer use. Just look: many skills cannot be accessed, golem is utterly broken, only the top available items are used, no tier 3 monsters, etc.
The goal of such a patch would be to create an item pool where every item has a different use, but in overall is not better or worse than another item in the same category. The same would go for monsters; tier 3 would not be superior to tier 1, only different. Everything would be balanced for multiplayer use only.

An FFT balanced for PvP(Or in this case CvC) would be amazing.

Definitely deserves its own forum.
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on December 26, 2009, 08:08:38 pm
I just got a weird idia for a new patch...

The patch will be a Solo Ramza using Necromancer job to *Summon allies and make em fight for him*
The enemy will aslo do the same.
The idia is making all the monsters Start's dead an the start of battle.(Unsumoned) The necro will use a skill to *Summon* (in other words , revive the monsters that started off dead) And using Skills to help out his *Summoned allies* or being on the offensive.

Each battle will have a enemy Necro (or 2) you will have to beat. Doing the same stuff has you. (Summoning monsters,buffing em and ect.)You aslo have a skill to invite monsters so u can use em in the later fights.
The necro emself will have little offence. The main strenght will be the Summoned monsters.
In short..this will be sort of a Summoner's war. (Or necromancer's war)

Yeah this is sort of weird but may be interesting if done right.Wat u guys think?
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Post by: Zaen on December 26, 2009, 10:20:37 pm
So you'd make your party members initial: Dead or something like that? That's a great idea.
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on December 27, 2009, 11:39:56 am
Once i get the next update of my own hack i may start making it. I noticed that the hacks here somewhat lack variety.
(I don't mean there are bad, just most of em looks the same in the long run) Im trying to do completely new stuff.
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Post by: Dome on December 27, 2009, 12:00:10 pm
Just give everyone (But not to Ramza and the others necromancers) initial dead, and rework guts with the skills
If you make a solo patch, a lot of abilities can be created
I like the idea, btw
Also a Zombie patch would be nice...
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on December 29, 2009, 01:55:35 pm
Zombie patch? u mean making anyone initial dead, permanant undead status or something?
Can u give a bit more detail about your views on the *zombie* patch?
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Post by: Dome on December 29, 2009, 02:02:37 pm
I love the zombie games, so a patch focused on them would be nice
It would require a lot of new sprites, because all the monsters should be changed to his undead version
We would need to remove some monsters to allow different kinds of special undead (Vampire, ghoul, ghost, revenant, etc...)
The final boss should be the one that plagued the whole world, and every boss his minion (With some unique ability to buff the undeads)
The priest would become uber powerful, so he should be changed to a special unit
Every enemy should have the permanent undead status, and you shouldn't be allowed to recruit new units at the office...you have to save them in random battle (That occour 100% of the times in every spot, and are very hard)
Items should be a lot more rare and Expensive...and the blood suck status should also add invite, and should represent the virus, so an infected unit would be permanently lost
The only place where you can buy stuff should be your "base", and the equipment sold is from a low-tier, so better equipment should be obtained only from battle rewards
Just some random ideas thrown around
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Post by: SolidSnakeDog on December 29, 2009, 03:07:52 pm
I see, not bad at all. But spriting and story events are my biggest weak point sadly...i can change about anything easly in the patcher/test but wen this come to events editing and sprites...i will just say this is out of my league sadly.
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Post by: Dome on December 29, 2009, 03:22:22 pm
In fact it's just an idea, not a project
I'm slowly trying to learn 2 edit, maybe one day I will be able to create a patch like that...
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on January 08, 2010, 08:45:52 pm
Someone should make a cirque du freak patch lol. One of my favorite books. The vampenize fight the vampires in  a huge series of battles. Like vampagonlords patch.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Shade on February 06, 2010, 03:34:54 pm
Here is idea.

were 3 sides in battle. one is ramdon enemy group. then two another teams are the guys that try invite them to their side with 100% invite. The guys who invite are immune to status of course.

You would have one guy only throught hole game. enemy migh have more of guys that can invite or better position or better equiment. We would balance this with giving special ablities to special class that enemy won't use.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pseudo on February 17, 2010, 11:55:42 pm
What about a patch where Ramza works with Delita after the closing of Chapter One. Ramza and Delita would both work for Goltana in retrieving the Zodiac Stone's from Larg's people who wish to use them to change the tide of the war. The Shrine Knights that appear later in the story can be their own group who want the stone's to ressurect St. Ajora to conquer both the White and Black Lion. I don't think it would require a lot of changes (not exactly sure, still a newbie [first post]), just text changes for the new story, a perm Delita in the party or one that stays and leaves at specific points in the story, and a still-alive Algus that will be Delita's nemesis. The story would make Ramza a person of corruption who wishes to see Goltana made King and does so faithfully to the point where he kills Dycedarg to get the stone (and Dycedarg uses the stone to turn into Adramelk to defend himself :D), etc etc. I saw a sprite of Ramza in some dark armor with a cape, that would go well with the story I think. ;o

There's probably some points I'm missing or messed up, but I came up with the idea pretty quickly so it's very rough.

Anyway, this is my first post and I'm excited about this discovery (FFHacktics that is). So heyyyyy ;o
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on February 18, 2010, 12:10:31 am
That would change quite a lot of the story if you want to make it believable.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pseudo on February 18, 2010, 12:40:25 am
Yeah, the story is a big "What if...".

I'll develop a plot summary and post it. But I need to crack out the PSP and play FFT again. It's been so long since I've played the game all the way through.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on February 18, 2010, 12:46:41 am
The main thing to worry about is keeping true to the characters.  Yes, a small change in circumstances can wind up having a huge ripple effect, but making drastic personality changes without a very good reason or explanation is just going to make people dislike the story.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: R999 on February 18, 2010, 01:20:32 am
Hmm I think I have posted this before... I would love to see Delita's point of view of the original FFT, how he came to be who he is... etc. We already know a lot about what happened in a lot of the cutscenes. Just need more details and battles. The most interesting phase is probably the timeframe between chapter 1 and 2.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pseudo on February 18, 2010, 01:21:23 am
Well Ramza, from his point of view would still be fighting for the "greater good", it would just be under Goltana's banner. His personality would be the same, he'd just be more of an anti-hero.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Atma on February 18, 2010, 02:24:25 pm
so, i've skimmed through a lot of these pages, but not all.  Is something like a FF7 Battle Square, or FF6 Colloseum possible?  i was thinking something like a spot on the map like the Deep Dark Dungeon, but the party size is limited to 1 (or maybe groups, too) and go through a number of battles to either gain duplicates of rare items/weapon/armor...
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: formerdeathcorps on February 19, 2010, 08:22:12 pm
Atma, there's an unused map that's perfectly flat with the symbols of the Zodiacs in the middle.  You can use that one and if you modify Attack.OUT and Test.EVT, you should be able to incorporate that battle as a 1v1.

Pseudo, as for your idea, you need to work out this idea much more.  Technical and character issues aside, if Goltana is "smart" enough to know about the stones, why wouldn't Larg and Barenten also learn of it (from spies, if not just from whatever source that allowed Goltana to learn of it)?  Also, if Ramza and Delita are working for the Nanten (and your first mission is to capture the princess and then fight off Hokuten troops at Zirekile Falls in Ch. 2), where would the characters go in Chapter 3?  It sounds highly improbable the two would be allowed to return to Orbonne or enter Lesalia (which is the heart of the Hokuten command).
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pseudo on February 23, 2010, 04:00:56 pm
Well the story would be re-worked, it wouldn't follow the story that we all know. As for a situation at Zirekile Falls, something would be created to fit into its place. I mentioned Delita leaving the party at certain points instead of him being a perm-party member 'cause while I was typing it I remembered that part at Zirekile Falls.

Although I won't be able to get to it right away, I'm trying to make a patch for the PSP version. :D
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on March 09, 2010, 10:33:51 pm
I've been experimenting with a new elemental system for a personal patch
Element Name (Flag in Patcher)

Fire (Fire) --> Wind (Thunder) --> Water (Ice) --> Fire (Fire)

Slashing (Holy) --> Bludgeoning (Dark) --> Piercing (Water) --> Slashing (Holy)

Heaven (Wind) <--> Earth (Earth)

All weapons deal damage of one of the three physical types (with the exception of books, which deal fire, water or thunder damage and use the magic gun formula)

Armor is divided into 3 categories; Plate (heavy armor, strong against piercing, weak against bludgeoning), Chain (medium armor, strong against slashing, weak against piercing), and Leather (light armor, strong against bludgeoning, weak against slashing). there are also "outfits" that act like accessories but are worn on the body slot (forfeiting hit points for stat boosts and status protection)
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on March 09, 2010, 10:47:46 pm
^ I like the idea, Skip.
I really like the idea of implementing 'slashing', 'piercing', and 'bludgeoning'.
Feels like Atlus' Etrian Odyssey skill system.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on March 11, 2010, 03:16:14 pm
considering making all stats equipment based on my personal patch, found the following values in FFT Patcher to result in 0 stat growth over 99 levels
           HP MP  PA MA SP
Growth      255 255 255  255  255
Multiplier  4   7 25 25 20
The above growth/multiplier combos result in both start and end values of 1 in all stats

Needless to say, since hp is based entirely on equipment as well, armor breaking/stealing abilities would be removed from the game (just armor, helms and other equipment will be fair game, but I would also be tying speed to armor, allowing me to keep it constant throughout the game)

Another benefit is that monsters actually become special, as the ability to increase stats via level up would become unique to them (monster speed growth is going to be a problem spot, not quite sure what i'm going to do for that yet)
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Dokurider on March 20, 2010, 05:49:41 pm
I got an interesting idea for a patch. Turn FFT into one big movie or cutscene. I got the idea from some guy at rpg.net. However the way he was going about it was pretty much fail. (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=503578)
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: samuchan on April 04, 2010, 06:41:28 pm
How about a way to implement handedness?

Right handed people have a slight damage boost (maybe +6.25-12.5%?) when a weapon is worn on their right hand, and a slight evasion bonus when a shield is worn on the right hand (where applicable).  Status effects can also be given a +2-4% chance of happening on a person's preferred hand as well.

Maybe handedness also affects which hand is raised when someone cast a spell or ability.

Ooo - Two hands can also affect magic - Caster uses both hands to cast the magic for extra damage/success rate.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: formerdeathcorps on April 04, 2010, 09:45:41 pm
If you really insist on doing this, which I don't, the only fair one I can think of is +5 crit in preferred hand and -5% crit in the less-used hand and +5 P/M-EV on the preferred hand and -5 P/M-EV on the less-used hand.  But how would the player know the handedness of a unit?  Remember, this would be extra game data the game must then store for every unit class ever generated, and I'm not sure there would be space for that.

Two hands affecting magic would be like Turbo MP in FFTA, but that wouldn't work too well since status magic wouldn't be boosted by nearly as much as damage magic.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: samuchan on April 04, 2010, 11:19:28 pm
Tie handedness to zodiac sign?
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 05, 2010, 09:05:10 am
I just had a crazy idea, this will need some testing to see if it'll actually work, but anyway..

some may know already of the workaround 1.3 uses to mess with unit sprites, by messing with a job's M.Graphic, M.Portrait, and M.Palette options. Well, what if you used this ability to swap humans and monsters? Humans would then be limited to special jobs and have an equipment based advancement, whereas monsters would be able to transform into different forms(jobs), much like monsters in the SaGa series, and would have ability and level based advancement. I'll do some testing with this idea and get back here later.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 05, 2010, 09:51:13 am
back from testing, initial testing positive, the only kink seems to be that the squire job cannot be changed back to once you change out of it, if your spriteset is set to 82 Monster, but otherwise everything works like normal
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on April 05, 2010, 03:15:23 pm
Quote from: "samuchan"Tie handedness to zodiac sign?

Seems too much of an arbitrary move to me.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"back from testing, initial testing positive, the only kink seems to be that the squire job cannot be changed back to once you change out of it, if your spriteset is set to 82 Monster, but otherwise everything works like normal

You can always make the monster-Squire job some pre-evolved thing and note "once you [evolve/whatever] your monster, it cannot go back to its pre-[evolved/whatever] form" or something.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 05, 2010, 03:25:42 pm
yeah, but said unit can still freely change back and forth between any other pesudo-monster job, or even human jobs (with a glitchy sprite), just not back to the squire-based job. So a better solution would be to lock squire out of the monster job trees entirely, and have all human classes branch off from squire, while monster classes branch off from Mime or something similar.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on April 05, 2010, 04:03:06 pm
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"some may know already of the workaround 1.3 uses to mess with unit sprites, by setting a job to use a different spiteset when set to monster gender.

Could you further explain for those of us unaware of what you speak of?

Also, I'm certain what you speak of with regards to humans only having access to "special jobs". Do you mean that they can change into special jobs? Or that units in special jobs are unaffected since those special jobs already take the place of Squire, which is the only job always has to be open?

Nice to see the SaGa series get some love.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on April 05, 2010, 09:55:41 pm
This is sort of a patch, but sort of a question. I've been thinking about this lately, and some of you, and even me a little may think it would ruin the classic tactics. But I thought that it might be possible (with some of our best Spriters) If you could touch up on the details, generate some really precised palettes, and improve maps. Overall, more of a patch of improved graphics, looking more in the lines of viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4659 (http://ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4659). I think it would be pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the hardware limits any sort of graphics improvement, and I'm sure people with bad PC's wouldn't favor the patch because I've heard people talking about lag in fft.

P.S.

I'm not thinking that Mike's map can be played in game, because I'm not sure what ganesha can do, but I'm just suggesting the graphics could look a little like that on sprites.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: formerdeathcorps on April 06, 2010, 01:24:31 am
You really can't improve the graphics.  There's a limit of 16 colors per sprite and probably similar limits for the palette of tile types.

Naturally, if you were to improve the graphics, you'd also have to improve the system it runs on.  But if you're going to do that, you'd might as well redesign the AI...and pretty soon, you'd already have another game.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 06, 2010, 07:38:23 am
@Thedamned
All jobs have a set of flags that determine what sprite, palette and portrait that a unit set to use spriteset 82 (normally used for monster jobs) will use when set to that job, as opposed to spriteset 80 (generic male) or 81 (generic female). So you can use this to force a job to use a different spriteset then normal. 1.3 uses this a lot in deep dungeon to have 'special generics' or units with special character jobs but generic job sprites.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on April 06, 2010, 04:41:17 pm
I figured there was a limit. It would be pretty cool if it could be done though.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on April 07, 2010, 11:46:42 am
Oh Skip Sandwich~~.

I again to wish to subscribe to your newsletter. As such, I would ask that you once again come hither and explain one of your earlier proposals.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"Armor is divided into 3 categories; Plate (heavy armor, strong against piercing, weak against bludgeoning), Chain (medium armor, strong against slashing, weak against piercing), and Leather (light armor, strong against bludgeoning, weak against slashing). there are also "outfits" that act like accessories but are worn on the body slot (forfeiting hit points for stat boosts and status protection)

I was curious about this proposal in particular. With regards to Clothing and Robes, did you just replace them with Armor? Or did you leave them alone and merely weaken their health benefits?

I ask this partially because I'm currently considering letting all classes in my patch use Clothing and maybe Robes as well. Despite the fact that I'm actually trying to use the given elemental system and thus can't replace it with your genius idea, I would, as always, be generally interested in your input.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 07, 2010, 02:38:55 pm
I personally organized armor by weight class (Heavy, Medium, Light), corresponding to the ability to equip Armor, Clothing and Robes, respectively, with armor options determined not so much by 'type' of protection they favor, but rather maximum weight class of armor they can equip. (so knights can equip all armor types, while mages can only equip light armor). I also gave each armor type a speed and move/jump bonus, forming a scale of More HP <<---->>More Speed/move/jump
the Heavy Plate armor may have 5 times the hp of Light Padded amor, but the Light Padded has +4 speed, +2 move and +1 jump by comparison, here is a chart displaying the simplest version of my system (the more complex version ranges from 255 hp +0 speed all the way down to 17hp +6 speed). I like this organization for equipment, as makes for a greater selection of viable choices as you progress through the game, rather then a dwindling selection or or set limit (especially once you start adding in armor with special effects/elemental affinity and whatnot.)
HP ------ Heavy -- Medium -- Light
Plate --- 255 ----- 170 ------- 85
Chain -- 204 ----- 136 ------- 68
Padded- 153 ----- 102 ------- 51

Speed -- Heavy -- Medium --- Light
Plate --- +0 ------ +1 ------- +2
Chain -- +1 ------ +2 -------- +3
Padded  +2 ------ +3 --------- +4

Agility -- Heavy -- Medium -- Light
Move --- +0 ------ +1 -------- +2
Jump --- +0 ------ +0 -------- +1

Here also as a special bonus is my system for shields
Large Shields -- P-ev -- M-ev -- Special
Tower Shield -- 0% ----- 0% ----- Always: Protect
Aegis Shield --- 0% ----- 0% ----- Always: Shell
Mirror Shield -- 0% ----- 0% ----- Always: Reflect

Small Shields -- P-ev -- M-ev -- Special
Buckler --------- 32% --- 16% --- none
Rune Shield ---- 16% --- 32% --- none
Kite Shield ------ 24% --- 24% --- none

I think this is an interesting dynamic, you must choose between blocking a set amount of all damage from physical or magical sources, or a chance to completely dodge damage from those sources.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 07, 2010, 03:36:30 pm
For those interested, here are some sample units fully decked out in my test equipment to showcase my HP <<--->> Speed dynamic. Headgear and accessories are omitted since none of those modify hp or speed in any way. The base unit is a Fighter, the squire replacement, who in this example has 200 base hp

Heavy Fighter 1 (Max HP equipment)
Rhand: 1-handed weapon
Lhand: Shield
Body: Heavy Armor (+0 speed)
Speed: 24
HP: 455
Move: 2
Jump: 3

Heavy Fighter 2 (Max Speed equipment)
Rhand: 1-handed weapon
Lhand: Shield
Body: Heavy Armor (+4 speed)
Speed: 28
HP: 251
Move: 2
Jump: 3

Medium Fighter 1 (Max HP equipment)
Rhand: 2h weapon (+1 speed)
Lhand: ^
Body: Medium Armor (+1 speed)
Speed: 26
HP: 370
Move: 3
Jump: 3

Medium Fighter 2 (Max Speed equipment)
Rhand: 2h weapon (+1 speed)
Lhand: ^
Body: Medium Armor (+5 speed)
Speed: 30
HP: 234
Move: 3
Jump: 3

Light Fighter 1 (Max hp equipment)
Rhand: light weapon (+1 speed)
Lhand: light weapon (+1 speed)
Body: Light Armor (+2 speed)
Speed: 28
HP: 285
Move: 4
Jump: 4

Light Fighter 2 (Max Speed equipment)
Rhand: light weapon (+1 speed)
Lhand: light weapon (+1 speed)
Body: Light Armor (+6 speed)
Speed 32
HP: 217
Move: 4
Jump: 4
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on April 07, 2010, 07:25:24 pm
Thank you for posting these things. They're extremely interesting....

While very few of these changes could be made due to the aforementioned elemental changes, you have at least helped me decide on something and give me things to think about. For that, I again thank you.

With that said, I'm still rather curious about something. With regards to your shields, you only had six of them? What did you do with the other slots, if I may know?
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 07, 2010, 07:48:34 pm
the other shields were a set of three elemental shields, a evasion type shield that traded P-ev for a boost to PA, a similar shield that boosted MA instead, a shield that was part of a set of items that turned the wearer into a berserk frog with absurd stats (99PA [ still only 72 damage, due to the penalty from being a frog], +500hp, always haste/shell/protect, immunity to all other negative status), and three shields that granted immunity to a single physical damage type in exchange for being weak to the other two types.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 10, 2010, 10:53:41 am
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"I personally organized armor by weight class (Heavy, Medium, Light), corresponding to the ability to equip Armor, Clothing and Robes, respectively, with armor options determined not so much by 'type' of protection they favor, but rather maximum weight class of armor they can equip. (so knights can equip all armor types, while mages can only equip light armor). I also gave each armor type a speed and move/jump bonus, forming a scale of More HP <<---->>More Speed/move/jump
the Heavy Plate armor may have 5 times the hp of Light Padded amor, but the Light Padded has +4 speed, +2 move and +1 jump by comparison, here is a chart displaying the simplest version of my system (the more complex version ranges from 255 hp +0 speed all the way down to 17hp +6 speed). I like this organization for equipment, as makes for a greater selection of viable choices as you progress through the game, rather then a dwindling selection or or set limit (especially once you start adding in armor with special effects/elemental affinity and whatnot.)
HP ------ Heavy -- Medium -- Light
Plate --- 255 ----- 170 ------- 85
Chain -- 204 ----- 136 ------- 68
Padded- 153 ----- 102 ------- 51

Speed -- Heavy -- Medium --- Light
Plate --- +0 ------ +1 ------- +2
Chain -- +1 ------ +2 -------- +3
Padded  +2 ------ +3 --------- +4

Agility -- Heavy -- Medium -- Light
Move --- +0 ------ +1 -------- +2
Jump --- +0 ------ +0 -------- +1

Here also as a special bonus is my system for shields
Large Shields -- P-ev -- M-ev -- Special
Tower Shield -- 0% ----- 0% ----- Always: Protect
Aegis Shield --- 0% ----- 0% ----- Always: Shell
Mirror Shield -- 0% ----- 0% ----- Always: Reflect

Small Shields -- P-ev -- M-ev -- Special
Buckler --------- 32% --- 16% --- none
Rune Shield ---- 16% --- 32% --- none
Kite Shield ------ 24% --- 24% --- none

I think this is an interesting dynamic, you must choose between blocking a set amount of all damage from physical or magical sources, or a chance to completely dodge damage from those sources.

That's wierdly similiar to an idea I stole.  Great minds...


http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/637/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/637/)
How about a patch that un-hardcodes everything? ... would that require a re-organization of the entire game?
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: samuchan on April 13, 2010, 04:00:01 pm
Is there any way to have a new AI setting?  One that basically tells the unit to use only move and wait?  This setting would be good for Singing and Dancing.

Edit: Oops wrong thread. Can someone put this in the skills ideas thread?
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on April 23, 2010, 06:16:20 pm
Not so much a patch idea in and of itself as part of one, but since we were talking about equipment in here and it no longer has to do with the skills since my Templars are not completely different due to me having a genius idea yesterday, I figured that I'd post it here rather than in the Skills/Jobs thread.

I've been wondering if anyone has extensively tested weapon changes.

What I mean by this is trying to change one weapon slot to another.


Originally, this between a month or two ago when I was trying to test out Vanya's idea of Blue Mages that use items. Naturally, due to item use, this would require replacement of Katana so as to use Draw Out skills--this ultimately failed due to monsters inability to use Items of any kind, at least as part of a monster skill set. (I'm sure this could may be remedied by giving monsters a human-ish skillset like how Skip Sandwich was proposing earlier, but there are several problems that and it's not the topic of what we're talking about right now anyway.)

Getting to the point, I had originally tried to replace Katana with Cloths since I'm trying to make more of the weapons with less than three in number as it is and I had figured that Cloths could easily be renamed "Hides" and still make sense. However, the graphical results of these new weapons when I attacked (whether with normal attack or Draw Out) would make Picasso proud. They were really, really bizarre, though they at least still did (visible) damage unlike some other things.

This was similarly the case when I replaced changed a Katana into a Bow and, I don't believe, changed anything else. While changing animation should easily get rid of the Draw Out problems (and the fact that what I decided to replace Katana with aren't mean to be weapons in and of themselves anymore), I'm unsure of what to do with regards to attack.

The reason this is still a subject of concern is because I currently still have all the Ninja Blade spots, the Bag spots and some other spots open as well. So...yeah.

Has anyone had problems or experience with this? I figure part of it might have to do with the type of weapon that's replacing it, like if I replaced all of Ninja Blades with some similar striking weapon, like another type of sword (though that grows increasingly unlikely) that maybe it won't happen, but I've yet to extensively test anything yet.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: formerdeathcorps on April 23, 2010, 06:32:31 pm
There are conflicting results.  I've tried creating more lunging weapons from striking weapons (and met disaster).  Lydyn claimed he had problems too (with similar replacements of swords), but VampDragonLord had no problems converting swords into guns.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on April 23, 2010, 06:42:03 pm
Haha, of course.

The one weapon I'm trying to get rid of the most is one that works perfectly. Awesome.

Sigh. I guess I'll just have to test things out. Oh well, this was mostly secondary to trying to make most, if not all, weapons useful for once rather than outdated pieces of crap.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Timbo on April 24, 2010, 12:52:09 am
Will you share your data Damned?  I also want to eliminate some of the smaller groups of weapons to flesh out others.  Namely bags and cloths, but I also want to restructure the other weapons as well, and I want to be prepared for any speed bumps I might encounter.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on April 24, 2010, 02:22:37 am
I will of course share, but I have to start testing first and at this rate...I probably won't be testing anything until summer starts.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The HiemLICH on April 26, 2010, 11:24:42 pm
Hey guys.

Long time lurker, new at this posting thing. So weird.

Anyway, I'm beginning work on a new patch I'm calling Teta Master (Like Tetris Master, except not related in any single possible way, except for in title! :D)

It goes like this... Teta survives Zeakden! On top of that, she blames Delita for what happened, e.g., the big scar on her shoulder and everything that came with it. There's more to depth, but, she joins Ramza post Chapter 1 and is with you throughout the entire game. I've always hated Delita and I figure since he gets to be with Ovelia then Ramza is going to keep Teta. Plus it'll help add a little dramatics to the whole Alma getting captured later in the game.

Now, when I say I've just started this I mean I literally just started this today. I have no screens, vids, and truth be told the only thing I've done so far is create Teta's job, which I'm calling Holy Adept. I'm posting this because I figured maybe it'll get a reply or two from interested parties. On a sidenote, I have absolutely no experience with editing events and having Teta in the party would of course change a lot of things. Longer conversations, and basically, add humanization to the plot. More feeling. I'm a guy, but I feel like FFT is just lacking a little bit in the true emotional spectrum. Having Teta there, I think, would let the player have a bigger emotional experience, and that is by far the only reason I'm doing this.

One small problem: Like I said, I have no experience. I'm not asking for help or anything, but this definitely isn't going to be out next week or even next month. Just preliminary stuff for now. Feedback always welcome!
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on April 27, 2010, 12:54:55 am
I believe one of the changes Remix is making is having Teta live.  I'm sure plenty of others have had that idea as well.  It isn't all that innovative.  You say your only reason for the patch is to enhance the emotional involvement of the story.  I suggest you find a more creative way to do so.  If you're going to alter the story anyways, why not rewrite the whole thing?  The changes involved with Teta living would change everything anyways, so it wouldn't likely increase the amount of work it would take.  Heck, it might even make it take less work.  Making scenes from scratch might be slightly easier than keeping them roughly intact while inserting another character and more lines.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on May 07, 2010, 07:22:55 pm
I've got several ideas swimming around in my head, so I'm curious as to what community preference tends to be.  What do you all think of the following stuff?:

Essentially an extension of the idea of having no soldier's office to recruit new characters, party consists of 1 character and 3 guests.  Half way like Mercenaries, the three guests would be made controllable and customizable and would join your character in every battle, including random battles.  All human characters would either be flagged immortal or there would be game over flags for any of them being crystallized, to prevent story complications and/or the game becoming unwinnable later.



Which of these monster concepts sound appealing/repulsive and/or compatible (taking fun into account) to the above idea?

A limited number of special monsters that are recruit-able at very specific parts of the patch, meant to be options for a supplemental fifth character to bring in battles.  Breeding is disabled.
Any normal monsters able to be recruited for the same purpose.  Breeding is enabled.
Only lowest tier monsters are recruit-able.  Breeding is disabled.
Chocobos getting six varieties and all being recruit-able at specific parts of the story.
Chocobos getting six varieties and being found and recruited like vanilla monsters.
Chocobos keeping three varieties and being exempt from the "lowest tier only" stipulation.



Which of these sound like they would make the most fun combination?  Pick one from each group.

1.  Starting stats
* Flatten starting stats so there's no difference between male and female.
* Keep normal starting stats.
* Individualize starting stats so that all characters have an automatic predisposition towards a particular job type.
2.  Stat growths
* Levels don't matter.  Characters may all start at level 99 to enforce this.
* Flatten stat growths so they are all identical.
* Keep stat growths different between Jobs.
* Make stat growths identical for Jobs of the same archetype, i.e. warrior, mage, rogue, etc.
* Make stat growths similar between Jobs of the same archetype but grow better with higher tiers.
3.  Stat multipliers
* Flatten stat modifiers so that raw stats determine ability, not currently chosen Job.
* Keep stat modifiers different between Jobs.
* Make stat modifiers identical for Jobs of the same archetype.
* Make stat modifiers similar between Jobs of the same archetype but grow better with higher tiers.
4.  Job availability
* Make all Jobs available to all characters.
* Limit each character to around 4 or 5 Jobs unique to them.
* Allow limited overlap in available Jobs between characters.  (May or may not be done through Dancer and Bard.)
5.  Impact of equipment on customization
* Have equipment function roughly the same as in vanilla.
* Make equipment contribute to current stats.  Individualize what equipment each Job can equip.  Remove equipment break abilities.
* Make equipment contribute to current stats.  Make all equipment equip-able by all jobs.  Remove equipment break abilities.
* Make equipment contribute to current stats.  Limit equipment according to archetypes.  Allow stipulations to be broken through Equip X abilities.  Remove equipment break abilities.
6.  Power creep reduction
* Don't use special gimmicks to slow power creep.
* Weapons all have a WA of 1 and instead boost the stats used for the attack.  (Change to Fist formula needed.  Slows weapon power creep.  Change to formulas involving speed and magic probably needed.)
* Defense Up ability innate to everything and boost the potency of the ability to 90%.  (Slows physical power creep.  Lessens amount of available innate ability slots, most noticeably a "problem" with monsters and Lucavi type creatures.)
* Protect or Wall made to reduce all/physical damage by 90%, made innate to everything, graphical effects removed.  (Less statuses to work with [Wall would be perfect for a cannoneer or for Astra], possible graphical bugs, extra window perpetually in the way of the status screen.)
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on May 07, 2010, 08:24:39 pm
I'm sure you know that there are a lot of variables that actually involved in most of the decisions, but I'll answer anyway without going into an unnecessary long-winded post about that. I will admit that I don't like any of the options for groups 5 and 6, but I'll answer anyway. I'll probably be in the minority regardless:


*shrugs*
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on May 07, 2010, 09:10:39 pm
Power creep can be accounted for by careful monitoring of min/max stats for the highest PA, MA jobs, proper rescaling of equipment HP, and slight WP adjustment.  Alter the level cap if necessary.

There's no need to use any of the options presented for this area outside of laziness.  All of them honestly kind of suck, but since technically my above falls under the first I'll choose that one.

1/2/3 are usually preferential (I prefer growths flat and each job with unique multipliers and the standard male/female schism, but others disagree), 4 is again preferential though in your proposed patch I think the third one would be best if you can rig a Job Wheel to flow that way for you, and 5 is worded far too obscurely and relies heavily on both 4 and 6.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on May 07, 2010, 09:55:55 pm
Ah, I suppose I really need to explain 5.  In Wild ARMs XF, also a tactical RPG, equipment generally contributes to a third of the characters' total stats.  This combined with various unique attributes equipment usually carried made Equip X abilities much more appealing and allowed greater customization of characters.  In this case, it would be like equipping a robe on a Knight and due to choosing that over its normal armor, the Robe would give a small amount of PA and a "large" amount of MA and so the Knight would wind up a bit more even stats, the effect being that it would at least have some power to... let's say you give it White Magic.    With careful arrangement, it's possible to allow the Jobs to have their optimal setups for whatever purpose they are designed for but still allow a player to have a fairly decent amount of say in whether a character is a melee fighter, speedy fighter, caster, or a mix regardless of what job it is.  In other words, the equipment choices would allow for either enhancing a job's strength or bolstering its weakness.

Of course that combined with stat growths would naturally lead to greater difficulty in keeping under control how high damage gets unless stat growths become very, very small to compensate.  The "gimmicks" would allow for having such a style of game without having to result in limiting leveling or growths to a lower extreme.



5 relying heavily on 4 and six is a byproduct of what attempts I made to split the variables up as much as possible without making the "survey" even larger.  The first option of both 5 and 6 are meant as the equivalent of "none of the above," and are basically for saying you don't like the other options.


As for story, I currently have bouncing around in my head is something loosely based on FFIII.  Very loosely...  I'm interested in a story focusing on four Warriors of Darkness having to stymie the light for a change, since Square has hinted at such adventures before but never seemed to actually feature such a plot.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Zaen on May 07, 2010, 11:34:05 pm
Ok.
Not a big fan of section 1.

Section 2:
Six varieties, vanilla style recruitment, all others disabled from recruiting.

Section 3:
#1: Third
#2: Third
This next one is what I like using
#3: First
#4: How would you do Second? I like it.
#5: Don't completely like any of them. Maybe just making equipment more important.
#6: I'd be lying if I said I knew what power creeping was.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: formerdeathcorps on May 08, 2010, 12:34:28 am
What's with this obsession with stats?  Seriously, the original FFT stats weren't that bad once a few select unbalancing abilities, broken equipment (mostly on the physical end), and mime are removed.  If you still feel like you don't have enough, you always have Zodiac's ASM hack on this regard for stabilizing CT against speed throughout the game.  If you want a game completely unlike the original (i.e. fewer physicals, fewer offensive units, fewer hybrids, less movement ability, more specialist/hierarchical jobs, use speed to implement armor weight system), then it might make sense to tweak the stats, but that would require a ground-up redesign of (almost) every class.

Thus, in my opinion, if you are going to keep most of the existing FFT classes:
1. No flat growths or anything resembling it.  Delete all the level up/down tricks.
2. Please don't kill the hybrid class(es) for the sake of simplification into 2-4 archetypal groups.
3. Instead of grouping by tier, make all monsters except the best (dragon, uribo, vampire, murbol, tiamat) invitable.  No monster skill should be nerfed from vanilla unless it violates Rule 1.  Focus should be made on equalizing monster attacks between the same race (so triple thunder should equal triple flame in damage, for example), in making monster skills applicable for human use (monster MA should match human MA so monsters can use counter flood, human magic, and counter magic without being completely broken--especially if you're going to make blue mage), and in making monsters of a given race capable of surviving at least somewhat well on their own (so please, let's not have any monster that is solely support--like the transportation chocobo with 8 move and close to no PA/MA).  New monsters with skills too broken should obviously be made uninvitable, but if you don't make all of a given monster family uninvitable, you'll have to remove breeding.  In my opinion, monsters are so weak that in most cases, you can afford to give them broken abilities removed from humans (hamedo, blade grasp, stat break, golem, dragon spirit) with considerably less restraint.
4. I really don't know what you have against equipment breaks, but I really see no need to eliminate it.  It's a necessary hazard for going into battle and if you don't like it, wear maintenance, play with the RNG, or restart.  I personally don't mind having something broken, as long as its replaceable, or if I'm about to beat the game.
5. Power creep...this problem really arises out of a very limited set of physical skills: namely, the top-end weapons, two swords, martial arts, and two hands.  The solution is easy.  Cap WP lower/make powerful weapons two hands.  Remove 2 swords and martial arts, or at least them as innates.  Rework/Set MP Cost/Nerf/Delete previously instant damage skills.  Make PA and SP boosting gear be suboptimal for all other important stats.  At the same time, you can increase the damage and speed of damage magic and increase the HP gains of robes and other mage/non-physical gear.
6. Status balance should also be addressed.  Status magic > damage magic except against bosses, especially late-game.  Not only is it faster to charge on average, it also lasts far longer (and hence is much more MP efficient), especially against bosses with ??? stats but no immortal status (as we see from 1.3).  Zodiac's ASM hack is the ideal solution, I think, only because early-game, these status effects barely last long enough (so CT duration reduction really isn't a good solution).

In short:
Monsters: Option 2 with variation named above
Start Stats: Option 2 with minimal variation from vanilla
Growth: Option 3 with minimal variation from vanilla unless you are modifying movement, MP costs, or speed bonuses.  This may be inevitable due to what we have to do for equips/anti-power creep.
Multipliers (mathematically, they're just two parts of the same formula, no need to separate these two sections): Option 2 with minimal variation from vanilla unless you are modifying movement, MP costs, or speed bonuses.  This may be inevitable due to what we have to do for equips/anti-power creep.
Jobs: I believe in hybrids.  Thus, I favor Option 3.  Every unit should have access to at least 2 kinds mage classes (damage and healing), 2 kinds status casters (positive and negative), 3 kinds of physical damage units (tanky, fast, and ranged), and 1 hybrid/special, which may take the place of one of the above (like WM--which is healing and positive status).  In other words, each unit should have access to around 6-8 types of jobs.
Equips: Option 1 with either modification to prevent power creep or to account for item weight or for armor type in types of weapon attacks (Lydyn's patch idea).  Do not nerf equipment break!
Power Creep: Option 1 with what I mentioned above under equips.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on May 08, 2010, 03:12:45 am
QuoteFocus should be made on equalizing monster attacks between the same race
I knew I was forgetting something in those options...

QuoteI really don't know what you have against equipment breaks
Normally I don't.  These and steals introduce a lot of balance issues if a decent amount of stats winds up coming from equipment.  They're mutually exclusive, I'm afraid.

QuoteCap WP lower
Fists.

I'm fairly agreeable to the rest of your reply to 5 and 6, a lot of in sounds in line with my thinking to begin with.


I suppose I should mention that I was considering setting all MP multipliers to 0 (for humans) and then giving a certain equipment type, like head pieces, +100 MP.  The effect of which is that attacks gradually grow more powerful and MP efficient but not more spammable.  This is because I personally would prefer a player to have to think about how to use their MP rather than just spew spells out every turn and chuck an ether at them every so often.  There are probably other ways to do this, but this is the simplest and easiest to control method...  And again, would be mutually exclusive with the appropriate break/steal skills.  If I remember correctly, growths aren't negatable but multipliers are.  Of course, as with the rest of it, I'm still just pondering possibilities.  Nothing is anywhere near set in stone at the moment.

As for jobs, I have to admit to preferring FFXIII's atypical selection of jobs more than the traditional FFT ones.  If at all possible, I'd like to have each combination of jobs and skill sets be worth considering, and those FFXIII professions do a halfway decent job at making most of them useable by most of the characters.  That is to say it would be nice if something like the Black Magic skill set wasn't totally useless on a Knight.  The accessory and weapon options do a pretty damn good job of letting you mold the characters' stats the way you want them to be, though not so far that you can turn a naturally talented mage into a fully physical warrior.  I highly doubt I'd take a large amount of what FFXIII has, but it provides a starting inspiration at least.  Another source of inspiration is again Wild ARMs XF.  The jobs in that game had 4 action abilities each, usually, so it often took some creative combinations to get the most out of the characters.  This gives me a goal to shoot for in design:  Adaptive and concise.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Zaen on May 08, 2010, 10:21:40 am
You can change the formula for fists. Just change the <Nothing> slot.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: formerdeathcorps on May 08, 2010, 01:05:54 pm
Quote from: "Zaen"You can change the formula for fists. Just change the <Nothing> slot.

So if you assign fists some innate weapon power, you can deal linear fist damage?  Will this affect monsters too?
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on May 08, 2010, 01:11:35 pm
here is my reply
1) normal starting growths are fine, leave them alone.

2/3) I like the idea of having growths defined by archetype, with multipliers giving different stat profiles to jobs within an archetype, though not nescicarily having a higher tier job be a straight 'upgrade'

4) If you want to mess with job availability, why not simply go all the way and require all jobs other then squire to be earned through shared jp? forcing you to recruit a character of that class and have them fight in battle to teach your other units the secrets of that job before they can use it. The gariland starters could all start off with some arbitrary job unlocks, two warrior types, two mage types, and two rogue types. (this would either be in male/female versions of the same three jobs, or the male mage and female warrior would be hybrid types to take advantage of male/female stat growth differences)

5) I don't see the need to remove equipment breaks unless equipment is the primary provider for that stat, like say if you used my armor weight system, or something very similar to it, then removing armor break abilities would be a good idea, because move/jump and speed wouldn't make much sense otherwise (wait, being naked is slower and more encumbering then wearing a leather jacket?)

6) as for combating power creep, here's an idea, frozen WP. By this I mean that All swords have 8 base wp and say 12 w-ev, with some swords trading wp or w-ev for different boosts (should probably not have weapons be a significant contributor to stats, because of problems with Two Swords, but if a weapon grants +2 pa or +1 speed it's probablly fine), I've been working on this a lot, so i'll make another post where I'll go into more detail, with specific weapon and such like

as for assigning fists WP, it wouldn't affect monsters other then special monster-job units like ultima demons and worker 8, because monsters cannot use the [attack] command unless beserked.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Zaen on May 08, 2010, 05:08:46 pm
Yep, monsters have their own basic attacks. Choco Attack, Tackle, Tentacle, Dash, etc.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on May 08, 2010, 05:45:05 pm
Quote from: "Zaen"Yep, monsters have their own basic attacks. Choco Attack, Tackle, Tentacle, Dash, etc.

Though, with a bit of tomfoolery you can set them all to a single skill and set it to Formula 2D, which should work fine if Fists have WP, I think.

Speaking of.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Fists.

...Scale both PA and WP bilaterally?

As long as you pay attention to what the highest PA mult and growth sum out to be, and combine it with the highest PA boosting gear and 70 Br, you can test out damage vs HP and as such scale Fist damage in the exact same way you can scale Weapon damage.

The only problem scaling-wise is Two Swords Fisticuffs (regardless of whether the unit has Innate Martial Arts or not), but this can be addressed based on how you assemble your class structure.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: The Damned on May 08, 2010, 06:04:55 pm
Since we're speaking of monsters, this reminds me that I forgot to mention that using Wing Attack for Panthers make it look like they're humping their enemies' heads. If they moved around less erratically, it would look like a fine pounce attack, but right now they look like they're in heat.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Zaen on May 09, 2010, 12:45:06 pm
Make that their monster skill ability? xD
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Timbo on May 10, 2010, 02:20:12 pm
Um, where have you guys been?  I created the flying Teabag for panthers months ago.  How about a little credit?
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on May 10, 2010, 02:50:22 pm
I'm too lazy to create a patch just to see that.  Someone want to make a video?  XD
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on June 01, 2010, 03:55:48 pm
Ooh, some one should make a western patch. With jobs like, bandit, outlaw, and change a chocobo to a horse. It would defeat the purpose of anything to do with final fantasy. It could be like red dead redemption.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: scatttman on July 14, 2010, 04:20:47 pm
i have an idea like FFT: Origins, the story of the zodiac braves when they defeat the lucavi with ajora glabados as theyr leader and protagonist of the story
based on the 12 warriors that defeat the lucavi i already have a char for every zodiac sign and they are going to be ancestors of characater in FFT
the ancestor of lavian will be the zodiac brave of aries and be a white knight (job) (lover of ajora)
ovelia's for taurus and remain as princess (job)
elmdor's for gemini as an arc knight (job)
zalbag's for cancer as an ark knight (job) (partner of elmdor's ancester and both disciple of orlandu's ancester)
vormav's for leo as divine knight (job) (and foe of orlandu's ancester)
ajora for virgo as saint (job)
mustadio's for libra as master enginer (job) ( and creator of worker 8 )
orlandu's as sword saint for scorpio
delita's as holy knight for sagittarius
rad's as dark knight for capricorn
for aquiarius i thinked in use the machine that brings cloud to fft universe since cloud its aquarius so the zodiac brave for aquiarius its cloud and have amnesia
reis's acestor for pisces as dragoner with a holy dragon pet
and optionaly elidibis's ancestro as serpentarius with the zodiac mage job

what i would like its have 12 1vs1 battles between the zodiac braves and respective lucavi
and in the end ajora betrays everyone
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Archael on July 21, 2010, 11:18:41 pm
I'm working on a SC2 mod and I have all the FFT jobs used (yes even the special ones)

Does anyone have any job ideas that they consider creative and/or unique? Jobs / classes that aren't found in RPG's / action games normally?

Send them my way please. Rough description of what the class role is is enough.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: CTS413 on July 21, 2010, 11:52:29 pm
I had an idea for a new patch with new jobs and skills but i would need help on making it. Soo if u like it and would maybe want to help let me know.

for Jobs

JOBS:

Warrior (squire)
Rush
First aid- Cure status ailment, and cures small amount of hp
fire-
rage- plus 3 PA, minus 25% health
take a stand- enter defend (support perk)
warrior walk- Move +1, Jump +1, Speed -1 (movement perk)
counter (counter perk)

Can equip blunt, swords, daggers. Can wear Heavy Armor, no Helmet


Alchemist (chemist)

potion- cures 30 hp
Hi-potion- cures 70 hp
Grand potion- cures 150 hp
Hp-Restore- fully restores hp
Full-Restore- Fully restores hp and mp to the max
Pheonix Down
Poison- poisons the target
Human Blood- cures vampireism and undead
Potion of fire- magical fire attack
Potion of ice- magical ice attack
Potion of lightning - magical lightning attack
Oil can- adds weakness to fire, lightning and ice
Chilling potion- Stops the target
Potion of Burdance- Slows the target
Either
Hi-either
Full Either- fully restores Mp
Antidote
Full health- When critical, recover all hp. (counter abillity)
Throw items
Field Medic- +2 speed, -1 PA (movement abillity)

Can equip Daggers, crossbows, and can wear light armor

Knight
Charge 1
Charge 2
Triple Slash- slash the opponent for an increased amount of damage than a normal attack, Costs 10 mp
Stap- Attack with a chance of KO, costs 5 mp
Crush- Break all opponents equipment, very low % but -1/8% of users hp per attempt
Tainted slash- Poison and Damage
Knights Honor- PA +3, however you are always slow ( Movement abillity)
Parry- Block opponants attack with equipped weapon ( Counter abillity)
Knights Burdan- PA +2, speed -2 (Support abillity)

Can equip swords, shields, and can wear Heavy armor and helmets

Archer
Charge 3
Charge 4
Charge 5
Charge 7
Aim helmet- break helmet
Aim armor- Break armor
Aim wepon- break wepon
Aim Accesorry- Breaks accesory
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: CTS413 on July 21, 2010, 11:53:08 pm
I have more jobs and items just didt feel like writing it all
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on August 05, 2010, 02:30:52 pm
Does a western patch appeal to anyone. That is my new pipe dream haha.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Vanya on August 25, 2010, 07:08:57 pm
I have a personal patch in the works that has gone through many changes and is currently evolving into 2 patches.
The first is strictly a job, monster & re-balance hack intended to simply give the player a more 'classic' assortment of content.
The second is a more extensive hack that aims to make FFT jive better with the rest of the Ivalice Alliance titles such as FFTA/2 & FF12.
What I would like your opinion on is my job list for the Ivalice Alliance Patch.

Key
Job (original job)
Starting jobs
Warrior (Squire)
Black Mage (Wizard)
White Mage (Priest)

Conditional Jobs
Warrior [3] = Thief,  Hunter (Archer)
Warrior [4] = Monk
Warrior [5] = Gladiator (Mediator), Knight
Warrior [6] + Knight [3] = Dragoon (Lancer)
Thief [4] + Hunter [4] + Monk [4] = Ninja
Knight [4] + Gladiator [4] + Monk [4] = Samurai
Black Mage [3] + White Mage [3] + Warrior [3] = Red Mage (Bard+Dancer)*
Black Mage [4] = Geomancer
Black Mage [6] = Time Mage
White Mage [4] = Green Mage (Mystic)
White Mage [6] = Shaman (Mime)**
Geomancer [3] + Time Mage [5] = Illusionist (Chemist)***
Green Mage [3] + Shaman [5] = Summoner
Red Mage [6] + Time Mage [6] + Shaman [6] = Arcanist (Calculator)

* An attempt will be made in the future to convert the Math menu type to work like a Double cast skill. For now the plan is to give the Red Mage a unique set of spells that have 1/2 the CT of their Black & White magic counterparts.

** An ASM hack is being worked on to turn Mime into a 'normal' job.

*** All units will have the Item skillset available at all times. This means that Chemist is no longer needed and that the items them selves will have to be nerfed and restricted.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: SilvasRuin on August 26, 2010, 12:52:11 am
Maps are larger in FFT than the FFTA games.  Will you be comparatively reducing Illusionist's power to compensate, or do you have some other means in mind?
Arcanist sucked in FFTA, and FFXII International seemed to redistribute the Arcane spells to the other mages, so what's your plan there?
I notice that Ninja, Samurai, and especially Arcanist require quite a lot of total job levels compared to the others.  Are you meaning for them to be just that much more powerful than the others or what?  It also seems a bit lopsided.  I personally would prefer both sides to have two medium-difficulty jobs to get than for one side to get two medium and the other to get a single very hard one.  That said, I'm probably overly fond of symmetry.  As long as things are balanced so as to avoid there being a clear superior, I'd probably be happy with it.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Vanya on August 26, 2010, 12:20:39 pm
Illusionist seems pretty weak as is, but I will take the size of the maps into consideration when I work out it's stats & abilities.

My Arcanist is going to specialize in dark magics including some of the spells used by the Demons and some new ones. If it still sucks I'll switch it with another job that is better suited for it's position. Although, I may also consider making the Math Skillset available to the Arcanist to make it more interesting.

The level requirements aren't final. I just threw up some numbers based on how powerful the jobs are as is or are intended to be.

I usually have the same fondness of symmetry, but I decided that it made more sense for the magic classes to require more levels. Magic should be a more difficult thing to learn IMHO. I will be keeping balance in mind as I finalize the jobs.


Edit: Here's the Job List for the 'Classics' edition.

Key
Job (original job)
Starting jobs
Warrior (Squire)
Scholar (Chemist)

Conditional Jobs
Warrior [3] = Knight, Thief
Warrior [5] = Medic (Mime)
Knight [3] = Dragoon (Lancer)
Thief [3] = Ranger (Archer)
Medic [4] = Monk
Knight [5] + Dragoon [3] + Monk [4] = Samurai
Thief [5] + Ranger [3] + Monk [4] = Ninja

Scholar [4] = Black Mage (Wizard)
Black Mage [3] + White Mage [3] = Red Mage (Bard/Dancer)
Black Mage [4] = Time Mage
White Mage [4] = Green Mage (Mystic)
Black Mage [5] + Time Mage [4] = Geomancer
White Mage [5] + Green Mage [4] = Shaman (Summoner)
Red Mage [4] + Time Mage [4] + Green Mage [4] + Geomancer [4] + Shaman [4] = Summoner (Calculator)

Special Jobs
Agrias = Paladin
Rad/Ladd = Dark Knight
Beowulf = Mystic Knight
Reis = Blue Mage

These would all be flavored a`la FF1 - FF3.
The Special Jobs cover some of the more popular jobs from FF4 & FF5.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Vanya on September 05, 2010, 12:26:21 pm
Hey, guys. I was thinking of doing a series of basic patches that set up the jobs and the job tree to emulate game series other than Final Fantasy.
For example, I just worked out a job tree for Etrian Odyssey and I have some ideas for a Vandal Hearts flavored one.
Would any of you guys be interested in having these as base patches?

Here's my WIP tree for Etrian Odyssey:

~Starting Jobs~
Warrior (ET3)
Alchemist (ET1&2)
Medic (ET1&2)
Survivalist (ET1&2)

~Conditional Jobs~
warrior ---> Landsknecht (ET1&2)
landsknecht ---> Phalanx (ET1&2 [as Defender] & ET3)
alchemist ---> Troubadour (ET1&2)
medic ---> Shaman (ET2)
survivalist ---> Ballista (ET3)
ballista ---> Gunner (ET2)

~Combination Jobs~
warrior + medic = Monk (ET3)
monk + landsknecht = Ronin (ET1&2)
monk + alchemist = Shinobi (ET3)
ronin + shinobi = Shogun (ET3)
shogun + defender/phalanx = Prince/Princess (ET3)
alchemist + medic = Hexer (ET1&2)
hexer + survivalist + warrior = Dark Hunter (ET1&2)
hunter + troubadour = Beast King (ET3)
gunner + warrior = Pirate (ET3)
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Draivyn on September 05, 2010, 12:43:15 pm
You have pirates and ninjas....all you lack of the holy trinity is vikings.  Those classes look rather interesting though
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Vanya on September 05, 2010, 05:42:52 pm
They borrowed heavily from FF when they made ET, but they also came up with some very interesting combinations.
Finished the ET Job Tree, BTW.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Draivyn on September 05, 2010, 06:30:15 pm
The classes in and of themselves look very interesting just by their names(having never heard of Etrian Odyssey) and so far from FF staples that it would capture one of my favorite parts of playing a class based RPG...the discovery of new classes and abilities.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 13, 2010, 12:38:18 pm
WIP of the job list from a personal patch i've been working on, based in part on DnD

5 Base Classes

Fighter (Defensive Physical) - skills based on formations and and leadership, heavy armor, shields, short swords and swords

Barbarian (offensive physical) - skills based on application of brute strength, medium armor, axes and bastard swords

Rogue (balanced stats) - two sets of skills, one based around 'tools' requiring the Backpack support skill (replacement for Item skillset), and another set of skills based around concealment (ambush/assassination skills requiring the user be under Transparent status), light armor, knives and bows. Innate Backpack, Throw Item

Priest (defensive magical) - healing and support magic, medium armor, shields, staves and flails

Wizard (offensive magical) - attack and status magic, light armor, staves and books

11 advanced classes

Dragoon (Fighter 6 + Barbarian 6) => great all-around stats with an emphasis on HP and PA, the highest stat totals of any class and the only class to have above average base speed, But only have a base move of 1 panel, practically requiring the use of a chocobo mount. heavy armor, polearms, flails and shields

Ranger (Fighter 3 + Rogue 5) => light armor unit specializing in ranged attacks and monster taming. light armor, bows and short swords, Innate Any Ground, Move in Water

Paladin (Fighter 5 + Priest 3) => medium armor unit built to hunt undead and demonic foes. Medium armor, swords, flails and shields, Innate Defense UP

Hexblade (Fighter 5 + Wizard 3) => medium armor unit that specializes in cursing the enemy. medium armor, katana and bastard swords, innate Magic Defense UP

Dervish (Barbarian 4 + Rogue 4) => light armor unit that wields two weapons at once. light armor, katana, innate Two Swords

Shaman (Barbarian 3 + Priest 5 ) => warrior-mage that channels the spirits. light armor, spears and books

Warlock (Barbarian 3 + Wizard 5 ) => warrior-mage that attacks with conjured weapons. light armor, axes and books

Gambler (Rogue 4 + Priest 4) => Gallant warrior that uses cunning and luck to outwit and befuddle enemy and ally alike, light armor, guns and knives

Performer (Rogue 4 + Wizard 4) => Whimsical warrior whose magical performances enchant all, light armor, harps and knives

Aetheritor (Priest 7 + Wizard 5, Male only) => Master of magic whose spells manipulate the very source of magic itself, light armor, staves, flails, shields and books, Innate Teleport

Gravitrix (Wizard 7 + Priest 5, Female only) => Mistress of magic whose spells control space and time, light armor, staves, swords books and shields, Innate Float, Immune to Gravity element

Mime (Rogue 8) => master of disguise that can copy any ability. Innate Counter, Counter Magic, Throw Item
--------------------------------------------------
Other notable features of this patch are my Armor Weight system and Physical Elements

Elemental System

Fire > Wind > Water > Fire

Crushing > Piercing > Slashing > Crushing

Aether < -> Gravity
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Jon on October 09, 2010, 09:32:53 am
I am making a gun patch. Same story and characters, totally different jobs. The process is very slow. I have to find what items can be turned into guns, I have 3 types of guns, hand guns which can be dual weilded or held in both hands, rifles (like normal rifles and sniper rifle) which must always be 2 handed, and magic guns which also are either dual or single. Only about 5 jobs that are vastly different. Only guns, knives, healing items, magic and bombs. Its supposed to make a new tactical feeling, but thats where it gets a bit complicated. If anyone has ideas, lemme know. Battles have now a new meaning to tactics, like hiding out of gun range. Like hand guns have a range of 5, rifles has like 8-10 and magic has anywhere between.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on October 09, 2010, 07:37:09 pm
Glad to see you are carrying that out Jon. I'd like to see what you can make of it. (I love guns in this game)
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Argy on October 10, 2010, 04:51:52 am
I love guns as well! I used some of the empty slits on my WoTL iso to make more guns. I used Vincent's guns from FFVII. So there is nothing cooler than running around with a Death Penalty. I really like your idea about forcing 2 hands etc. I have also played with the range as well. Short barrell has a small range but has an AoE, like a shotgun.  If you get it finished, would it be great if you released you ppf. I love playing with item palettes of the guns as well!
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Jon on October 10, 2010, 06:39:09 am
I dont know how to make a ppf, but I could just simply post the fftactext and fftpatcher file...its not even close to finished yet though, I am still making guns...
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on October 10, 2010, 11:17:01 am
BTW, I made guns two hands once, or maybe they worked with double sword, I can't remember, but it is very powerful.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Jon on October 10, 2010, 12:26:57 pm
2 guns works, its very nice to shoot twice at a distance. The only way to make Mustadio cool is with 2 guns.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on October 10, 2010, 02:11:55 pm
Agreed. I owned with two guns.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Croix on October 23, 2010, 01:57:25 pm
Hey Jon. I've been working on a custom class of my own. If you want I can give you what I have worked on so far... (it replaces Bard) and you can use it in you're patch...
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: ffta707 on October 23, 2010, 05:47:16 pm
Quote from: "Croix"Hey Jon. I've been working on a custom class of my own. If you want I can give you what I have worked on so far... (it replaces Bard) and you can use it in you're patch...

Me and Jon have been working together on this patch. It is going to be bigger now, and with some gun battles and tournaments. I'm working on the jobs currently, so send it to me and me and Jon will work on it. Is it the clown job?

You Can expect to see it in the patch. We need these ideas. :)

P.S. You'll be in the credits! lol
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Croix on October 25, 2010, 12:29:00 pm
another idea,

Outlaw, uses two guns, steals equipment, high jump and high move, low def, possibly some talk skills....
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: fluke84 on November 12, 2010, 12:07:05 pm
Wasn't sure I should create a thread after reading the stickys. ANYWAY!

Just finished ch.1 of my personal patch and I'm considering posting a demo for balancing help and suggestions/comments. What I've tried to do is inject the classes, enemies, and items from FF1 into the tactics world (I'm sure it's been done to death but if not YAY!). Not a huge task if you really think about it, I haven't done any editing outside of patcher and tactext mainly because I know what my limits are... maybe in the future. Just concentrating on the groundwork for now.

Quick Overview of Edits
- new classes (total of 10 generics and edited Ramza job, removed some jobs that didn't fit)
- all weapons/armors edited, modified, new effects & attributes
- removed chemist items completely (if I get into ASM might consider giving innate ITEM to all)
- all monsters in battles have been given ???? status and have modified HPG/HPM (so they don't get TOO powerful)
- spells renamed to FF1 version if there is one (ie. LIT2, BLND, CUR2)
- minimum 2 skills per physical class (added these so the Fighter or Blackbelt would have something other than attack)

If this idea has been done to death (FF1 Tactics) please tell me now, I have a second concept ready to go but this one won the coin toss.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Archael on November 12, 2010, 01:09:15 pm
the sticky topic's warnings really only apply to full storyline hacks that propose to change the entire storyline and add in 4 chapters of events

if all you're doing is a gameplay modification (like 1.3) you have a lot less on your plate and it's alot easier to manage your time to finish that
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: philsov on November 12, 2010, 01:17:53 pm
Quote- removed chemist items completely (if I get into ASM might consider giving innate ITEM to all)

Afiak, the Item Innate All hack works fine.  Of course, this being a FF1 throwback the pool of items will be halved.  Potions for the entire game!  Whee.

If you're going for mega throwback you can rummage through the game with the attack.out editor and make all the fights consist of only 4 units instead of 5 :)  

imo focus on the patcher stuff, but its worth compensating for in the entd

Quotetotal of 10 generics

12? >_>

Also, how are you managing the classes?  Making the first 6 initially available, and after a significant JP investment the update becomes available?  Like job level 8 thief -> ninja, and you can redefine level 8 to be 9000 JP or somesuch?  Is Ramza going to be a Hero type unit with all the generics being his 4 warriors of light, or is Ramza going to be one of them?

*wipes up his drool*
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: fluke84 on November 12, 2010, 11:00:33 pm
Quote from: "philsov"If you're going for mega throwback you can rummage through the game with the attack.out editor and make all the fights consist of only 4 units instead of 5 :)

great minds think alike! it's already in the planning, but yeah... it's gonna take a bit to do so it's last on the list.

Quote from: "philsov"Also, how are you managing the classes?

I haven't decided quite yet how to manage it. I dropped red wizard and grand master due to redundancy issues so that leaves two classes with no upgrade path. I'm looking at either using a two tree method with fighter and red mage bases, but this doesn't really hold true to the concept. The other option is to just make the two non-upgraders a little more unique than the other classes and go with the lv.8/9999jp upgrade route for each individual class.

I've renamed ramza's job to hero of light to infer him as the leader of the group of warriors. Trying to work out a group of skills based around the elemental orbs on paper now, but this was more of an afterthought so I'm sidelining it till the rest of the patch is done.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: philsov on November 19, 2010, 02:45:03 pm
Escape From Murond Death City:

A rather small patch, detailing Ramza and Co. as they go from the exploding-to-safety airship and somehow out of that damned place.  You start with a full roster and as the fights progress all the characters except Ramza and Alma die horribly at the hands of some demonic force that is chasing them.  It'll probably be like 6ish total fights long, as most of the special characters fall into 4 or 5 total categories

Most of the enemies will be rehashed bosses, though now grouped up and rebalanced.  

I'm still torn about including slain semi-friendlies in fights though... like Izlude popping in to help in a fight with Vormav/Hashy or Miluda entering and giving you a hand with Weigraf for one final time.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Melancthon on November 19, 2010, 03:11:18 pm
phil I love that idea.  When you say full roster, I assume you mean all of the special characters.  Since this would take place post-game, how would you handle JP/Abilities?  I'm thinking you could have all the units with all jobs unlocked and a large JP pool to spend buying their abilities rather than starting with every job mastered just for the sake of fun  The size of the initial JP pool would go a long way in dictating overall difficulty too.  

I don't know about Izlude, but having the Shade of Miluda appear to fight with you against Wiggy would be epic.  The scene before you fight where she appears and calls him out for abandoning their ideals could be wonderful.

And the death scenes!  Mustadio and Boco devoured together!  What if Rafa dies at the end of one battle and Malak is not pure enough to revive her with the zodiac stone, and the resulting sorrow and rage turn him into a Zodiac Monster, leading right into the next battle?  There's just so much cool stuff you can do with this.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Kill_Bones on November 19, 2010, 03:13:03 pm
Quote from: "philsov"I'm still torn about including slain semi-friendlies in fights though... like Izlude popping in to help in a fight with Vormav/Hashy or Miluda entering and giving you a hand with Weigraf for one final time.
I'd do it. Just my opinion though. If the enemies are 'alive' in murond, why can't dead allies be? I would love to see this. Would it be a standalone patch or would you encounter these fights after the Altima battle?
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: philsov on November 19, 2010, 04:42:53 pm
QuoteI assume you mean all of the special characters.

Yup.  Means a total of 17 if you include alma, but that's what guest slots are for.  

Teams would be:
1 - Agrias, Orlandu, Meliadoul
2 - Rafa + Malak
3 - Beowulf + Reis + Mustadio + Cloud
4 - Rad, Lavian, Alicia
5 - Boco, Byblos, Worker 8

or something similar

Quotehow would you handle JP/Abilities?

Given how difficult Ramza is to edit it'll probably be easiest to bundle a save file with the patch and have all the units/inventory edited in as desired.  Ramza and Alma will probably be 9999'd all over the place, while everyone else is more restricted.

QuoteThere's just so much cool stuff you can do with this.

Indeed.  That Rafalak idea is a very cool one -- imma steal it.  

Perhaps a more proper name would be FFT: Final Destination...

QuoteWould it be a standalone patch or would you encounter these fights after the Altima battle?

Standalone.  This frees up space as needed, but also smoothes out bumps like "well, I booted Malak...."

There's still a few things I need to look into, like how to remove people from the roster.  But in general I should be able to copy-paste the instructions from the Orbonne Home Stretch to just go with battle after battle with save points.  But like Asmo said, start small, and this seems like a fun little project.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pride on November 19, 2010, 04:52:38 pm
And I love the idea and for an initial help to start and to prevent you from looking {7A}(rxx00) is used to remove units with xx being the sprite number of the unit being removed. Such as {7A}(r0C00) would remove the unit with the princess sprite, aka Ovelia.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: philsov on November 19, 2010, 05:02:47 pm
And I include that in the event instructions, correct?

and thank you!
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pride on November 19, 2010, 05:04:45 pm
Yes you do, I should have been more specific on where its suppose to be put =P
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Asmo X on November 22, 2010, 01:21:15 pm
My god. A story hack that actually stands a chance.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: fluke84 on December 02, 2010, 01:23:31 pm
Putting the FF1 patch on the backburner for the time being because I've been working for weeks on it and need a breather from that project...

In the meantime, I've been brainstorming for ways to make a vanilla-based patch that adds some fun and difficulty to the game with a new twist. One idea I've been toying with is to treat the elements more realistically. Here's some of the concepts I've come up with so far (didn't see anyone else with a similar idea so here's hoping no one has already posted this)...

- metal items give wearer weakness to lightning (ie. armor, helmets)
- non-metal items give wearer weakness to fire (ie. clothing, robes)
- ice & wind element attacks have chance to add slow
- earth element attacks have chance to add don't move
- water element attacks don't do anything different yet...

If anyone has some suggestions on how to expand this I'd much appreciate it.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Pickle Girl Fanboy on December 02, 2010, 01:37:13 pm
You could try Saiyuki: Journey West's elemental system, which is based on Chinese mythology and Tai Chi.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Croix on December 12, 2010, 04:10:53 pm
Just a random idea I had kicking around my skull, may have already been thought of but here goes...

I see a considerable amount of Final Fantasy VII characters that have been sprited for use on FFT. I was thinking of making a storyline featuring the characters, with Cloud as the main character of course... Kind of, have the intro being the team being transported to FFTs  world and scattered across Ivalice. Some of the characters are corrupted by the Zodiac Stones (I was thinking Barret and Yuffie) Others die, such and such. Featuring new weapons (granted you can re sprite the weapons palette) to accomodate the weapons of each unique character, Secret Characters (Zack, Vincent, Lucrecia) New storyline completely. new boss for the Deep Cave (Hojo, Jenova and Sephiroth)  New abilities and even Perhaps Secret Abilities for Vincent (transforming into the Zodiac Monsters)

If this is a cool idea, let me know :)
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: theultrawolf on December 16, 2010, 01:03:11 am
here's an idea: making fft into ffta, complete with the missions cycle, and law and judge system.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Arganthonius7 on December 24, 2010, 05:41:36 am
I have three different storyline ideas for my patch, but I can't decide.

1:Isilud's Tale: Isilud has to stop Ramza and Alma from summoning Altima.

2:Path of Thunder: Orlandeau, Balbanes, and (ramza's mom) go on a mission to stop an insane mage from destroying the world.

3: Evil Alliance: The bad guys team up to stop an archangel from eliminating all evil.

Please help me decide between them.
Title: Re: Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread
Post by: Dominic NY18 on December 26, 2010, 02:56:29 pm
With a dedicated sub-forum for people to make topics dedicated to specific mod ideas and proposals, this thread is kind of redundant now.

This thread has had a good run and served its purpose, but it's time for it to say goodbye.