Final Fantasy Hacktics

How feasible is creating a status effect that locks the Attack command?  If specialty skills like Solution are tough to use because the AI would sooner attack, then we could slap this status effect on a new bag to prevent the AI from attacking.

Ah, I forgot that Mythril Gun had shorter range than Romanda Gun, even after reading your post.  Yeah, Mythril Gun would get 8 range, as well.

As for Mediators, is the AI smart enough to use Solution on the opposing team?  I ask because I never bothered testing it.

Quote from: The Damned on January 16, 2013, 03:43:15 amSo you would be fine with them both costing 150 JP? Or do you think Refute should just not be changed? Talk Skill as a whole despite three skills being basically unusable by the AI at present?

I am of the impression that Refute removing buffs when it's being used defensively - or removing ailments when it's being used offensively - is an appropriate double-edged sword for its universal applicability.  Splitting Refute into two skills is like trading in this double-edged sword for two single-edged ones.  With that said, making the skills cost 150 JP is actually a buff, albeit a mild one.  I'd prefer to keep Refute in one piece, but if splitting it turns out to be more popular, then I would suggest making each skill cost 150 JP.

Quote from: The Damned on January 16, 2013, 03:43:15 amOracle's Sleep is currently pretty much useless between Oracle's own Paralyze being cheaper, faster & way more effective, especially for mages, and Mediator's Mimic Daravon.

You're right about Paralyze being more useful than Sleep.  I personally shy away from Sleep because of its higher CT and JP cost.  Increasing Paralyse's JP cost to 150 solves half of that problem.  Reducing Sleep's CT to 3 can solve the other half.  Then Sleep will work just as nicely on 10 SP Oracles as Paralyze.  Sleep will probably need to have its Vert reduced to 0, though, to keep it balanced.  By the numbers, this makes Sleep and Paralyze nearly identical to each other.  I am fine with that, personally.

Quote from: The Damned on January 16, 2013, 03:43:15 amMythril Gun also hasn't really ever been used to my recollection, partly because of its inferior range. It's also partly because of the three classes that innately use guns, only Mediator really gives a damn about MA and relatively small boosts to MA aren't "doing" anything for Talk Skill (in neutral settings). It doesn't really help that Archer's two weapons with +2 MA are now quite usable (and good) and that it might get another one, which basically limits Mythril Gun as it is now to being used by Chemists & Mediators, non-elemental aspect aside.

Noted.  We could always just swap the WP then remove the Romanda Gun for the time being.

I got time to kill, so I'll respond to some of those suggestions, Damned.  Your list is long, so my answers will be concise.

Quote2. [PALADIN]: Reraise's CT increases from 0 to 2 and its JP cost increases from 100 to 150.

Reraise has finally been made usable as of 1.39.  Its usefulness is limited by the AI's refusal to use it unless an ally is wounded, and its spammability is limited by its high MP cost for a Chivalry skill.

Quote6. [PRIEST]: Priest's Speed increases from 8 to 9, MP decreases by 5, Male Priest's PA decreases from 8 to 7 (and at present its HP doesn't change).

I believe differences between each gender's stats is hard-coded and, at present, impossible to change.

Quote19. [MEDIATOR]: Solution becomes Cancel: All Negative statuses and its JP cost increases from 100 to 200 JP.
20. [MEDIATOR]: Refute loses Charging & Performing & its ability to Cancel: All Negative statuses, becoming Cancel: All Positive statuses, and its JP cost decreases from 300 to 200 JP.

You are indirectly nerfing Mediators by increasing Refute's JP cost from 300 to 400 here.  Refute is fine as it is now (although I am comfortable with removing its ability to cancel charging/performing; that's what Throw Stone and Sinkhole are for).

Quote22. [MEDIATOR]: Mediator's HP decreases by about 10 and Mediator's C-EV increases from 5% to 10%.

You really think Mediator's are in line to have their HP nerfed?  Their high HP makes up for their unworkable primary skills.

Quote24. [ORACLE]: Paralyze's X decreases from 60 to 55 and its JP cost increases from 100 to 150.

Reducing Paralyze's X value is not necessary.  The counter to Paralyze is and always has been M-EV.

Quote25. [ORACLE]: Sleep's CT increases from 4 to 5, its MP cost decreases from 24 to 20 and its X increases from 60 to 65.

For someone who thinks that Mimic Daravon is too swingy, are you sure you want to increase Sleep's X value?  I'm just asking here.

Quote32. [NINJA]: Tsumazuku dies and Ninja gets something that's worth using, that it will actually use and that will still at least cancel or deny Haste.

I am earnest about my AoE skill that cancels Haste and does damage.  I'll repeat it here:

Kibaku Fuda (Exploding Tag): 4 range, 1 AoE, 1 Vert, 10 MP, Dmg_B(SP*WP), M-EVable, 100% Cancel: Haste, Regen.

The idea is that the "100%" cancel together with damage puts Draw Out users in a Masamune loop.  If these users are wounded and do not have any other form of healing (and they often don't), they will use Masamune 100% of the time.  The HP recovered from one turn of Regen will not recover the damage Kibaku Fuda dealt, so they will eventually die.  Making Kibaku Fuda depend on SP both keeps its damage from being boosted like Black Magick and makes it feel at home on the Ninja skill set, which will also possess Speed +1.  Depending on how the AI uses this skill, it might be overpowered and in need of tweaks, but that can all be chalked up to growing pains.  Let's give it a chance.

The skill takes M-EV so that it can't be boosted by Hidden Knife, which is native to Ninja.

Quote[KNIVES]: Throwing Knife's WP increases from 10 to 12 and maybe its Death Sentence proc decreases from 33% to 25% (especially if Death Sentence gets "buffed").

Throwing Knife's shtick is its Death Sentence proc, not its damage.  This change makes Throwing Knife less appealing to me.

Quote5. [NINJATO]: (Slight change from Raven's suggestion): Ninja Knife's WP decreases from 11 to 9 since Kagesougi's powerful enough without its best Ninjato, sans Hidden Knife, buffing it and having the most WP.

I strongly disagree with this.  You're making the Ninja Knife vastly inferior to all other ninjatou by doing this.  As for Kagesougi, Hidden Knife's "Always: Transparent" is the problem, not Ninja Knife.

Quote6. [NINJATO]: (Slight change from Raven's suggestion): Ninja Edge's WP increases from 9 to 11 since it has to compete with Kagesougi still causing Don't Move as it is.

Ninja Edge's WP is already 11, unless I'm missing something.  It's Don't Move proc should be increased to 50% to compete with Short Edge, however.

Quote17. [STAVES]: Healing Staff's W-EV increases from 10% to 20% and gains Strengthen: Dark & Speed +1 in addition to Strengthen: Holy. (Possible renames: Chaos Staff, Cosmos Staff, Priest Staff, etc.)

This sounds overpowered.  Superior W-EV, +1 Speed, and elemental strengthening?  Give some of these boons to other staves.  For example, 20 W-EV would work better on Gold Staff, since Gold Staff is intended to be used as a melee weapon.

Quote21. [GUNS]: Romanda Gun's WP decreases from 10 to 8.

22. [GUNS]: Mythril Gun's WP increases from 8 to 10.

You lost me on this one.  Mythril Gun gives +2 MA.  Romanda Gun gives nothing.  Do you still wish to swap their WP?

Quote1. [OIL]: Remains "one-shot" & not applicable with Holy & Dark, but instead gains the ability to block Haste and perhaps even cancel it.

Oil is good enough!  Having it block Haste is going to make the ailment too good.  I even oppose having Oil lock reactions.  Having Oil lock reactions is going to make the spellgun + Oil combo even more destructive, as Projectile Guard will no longer counter it.

Quote5. [DEATH SENTENCE]: Changes to cancel Reraise.

This fairly addresses your concern about Paladin's Reraise.  I like it.

The other stuff I do not feel strongly enough to comment on, although I must warn against making too many changes at once.  Mixing too many things up with each patch makes balance more difficult to achieve. 

While we're discussing giving Berserk a CT (which is a good idea), I would also like to propose giving Blind a CT, as well.  The reason for this is that the AI lacks the foresight to reliably cleanse this ailment.  For example, if a melee unit with Antidote is blinded, it will choose to attack at 50% odds rather than use Antidote.  Keep the CT long (60-90) so that Blind is still debilitating, but make it finite to curb the odds of losing by retardation.

Quote from: Malroth on January 15, 2013, 12:32:06 am
Idea
Wizard staff 10WP  Half: Holy/Dark Immune:Silence, Berseerk

That staff is a little overpowered, Malroth.  Putting both elemental and status resistance on a staff is wildly attractive to mages that don't make strong use of weapons.

Quote from: The Damned"For Cover Fire, reducing the Y to 60 doesn't do much, just reduces damage by 10-30 points.  I recommend changing it from (1...3)*(PA+70) to (1...6)*(PA+25)."

This change has already been made.

I'm with The Damned on Oil.  Demi2 was made nicely useable in 1.38.  Turning it into a Death spell with Oil is troubling.  There are ways to prevent this, though:

1) Change weakness modifiers from 2x to 1.5x, or
2) make Demi non-elemental

My vote is for option 1, because option 1 also

1) indirectly buffs elemental shields and Cursed Ring, and
2) nerfs Oil + magic gun combos

Also, is making Oil persist past elemental damage for the sake of the few skills that are elemental and inflict status ailments a good idea?  Persistent Oil sounds broken to me, considering that it's also been proposed to lock reaction abilities, as well.

How about Judas Priest and Electric Wizard?

Here are some extra Priest changes pulled out of the balance thread:

Quote from: reinoe on January 06, 2013, 08:06:16 pmI'd rather not see [Snipe skill's] JP decreased.

You really think Leg Aim is worth 200 JP?  Don't Move is one of the lousiest of status ailments.  It only shuts down melee classes with zero support, healing, or range abilities.  Time Mage's Don't Move costs only 100 JP and has an AoE of 2.  Execute is another funny one.  Considering that most archers use guns, spending 200 JP to do what simply one more bullet can do is kind of silly.  Unless I'm failing to see some powerful hidden purpose here, Execute is only good on bow users faced against opponents that stack P-EV.  And in that case the bow user has other problems.

At the very least, I'd like to see the JP cost of these two skills reduced.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on January 06, 2013, 09:09:27 pm
Cure 4 is notable because it bypasses Reflect...

If we're going to keep Cure 4 around for that niche application, can we at least reduce its CT and JP to make it more accessible?  Right now, it's competing with Murasame, items, and gun healing, and those options are better because they're instant.

Quote from: The DamnedKagesougi losing Don't Act

I only included it because I find it extremely difficult to not put a Ninja with Hidden Knife and Kagesougi on my teams.  No other build gets to inflict around 200 damage with two free status ailments on the side.  By removing Don't Act, people will at least have a chance to heal the damage.

Too late!  I got most armour-related and skill-related suggestions.  I added in a few of my own, as well.

I'm reposting Raven's rebalanced equipment with a few tweaks that followed later discussions.  Armour that is not listed remains as is.  All listed armour apart from Golden Hairpin receive buffs.  Also, these changes assume that each piece of equipment gets its own attribute space.










And for class-based stuff,












Also, there's a general consensus that Time Mages should receive a buff.  How, exactly, is still under debate.  I wish to make them 8 SP tanks with shields and a wider weapon set so that they can use Balance properly.  Others want to bump them up to 10 SP instead.

FFMaster, do you plan to make Druids tanks?  If Druids are tanks, then I am fine with giving Time Mages the SP buff and transferring Balance to Druid's skill set.

Edit: Tweaked a few things further.

Quote from: The Damned on January 05, 2013, 03:07:04 pm
2. Recent Break Hack: So this is basically a "yay or nay" question: Do people think that the hack that makes it so that breaks miss and don't act as attacks if the target doesn't have the proper equipment to broken should be used in ARENA?

Makes sense to me.  Breaks doubling as physical attacks struck me as odd ever since I first played FFT on PSX.

Quote from: The Damned on January 05, 2013, 03:07:04 pm
3. Damn, "Daravon" Dryly Drones Dutifully: So...with it popping up more and more lately, I've been thinking again: Mimic Daravon seems like it might be a hell of a lot more fair if was just single-target, especially since Mediator's never really ever been a complete pushover without it. This even if half of their skills are still sort of dubious. At present, though, Mimic Daravon seems a bit too "swingy" for something that's more or less unavoidable & multi-target & instant and it has hell of a lot more freedom than Oracle's Sleep & it thus obviates that more or less. Reducing its targeting to one target doesn't seem like it would make it instantly useless either, even if it would now have to "compete" with Blackmail since Don't Act and Sleep are similar; ultimately they're quite different though. Its JP cost would probably have to be reduced, though, especially if Oracle's Sleep is only 150 JP.

I think Mimic Daravon is one of the few redeeming skills in the Mediator's toolset - the others being Insult and Refute.  Taking away their sole AoE skill might make them kind of toothless.

Quote from: Eternal on January 05, 2013, 11:01:45 pm
The Cure line seems very iffy to me right now. Cure2 and Cure3 get the most use, whereas Cure and Cure4 are barely touched at all. I propose a change to that line of spells.

-Cure stays the same, but has Cure3's formula/MP/CT/etc.
-Cure2 becomes Nether Cure, which would cost more and be a bit longer to cast, but would be based on Unfaith (not Unfury).
-Cure3 becomes Pray, which would be single-target heavy healing, but it wouldn't cost as much as Cure.
-Cure4 becomes Heal, which would heal the entire party at once for a bit of HP.

Cure 2 with Magic Attack UP tends to be a better option than Cure 3 with Short Charge.  For around 5% less healing strength, it costs fewer MP and JP and lets its user put the bonus MA into offense when the user isn't healing.  I'd hate to see it go.

Cure is also great for sneaking in some healing between enemy turns.  Again, though, it requires the caster to have a lot of MA to be worthwhile.

I feel that Cure 4 is unpopular because it is single-targeted.  For single-target healing, most people stick with Item; while items heal for less, they're much easier to use.  Your proposed skill "Pray" might be unpopular for the same reason.

As for "Heal," isn't that kind of like Angel Song?

Anyway, I'm open to shuffling around Cure spells, myself, especially if it means axing Cure 4 for something better. 

Quote from: Eternal on January 05, 2013, 11:01:45 pm
I feel something should be done with Protect/Shell, but I can't think of anything decent to replace them with currently. My only guess would be replacing Protect with Vanish and Shell with Wall (as in 1 HP damage until next turn Wall), but I know the AI has issues with the latter.

I've been thinking about Protect and Shell, too.  How does making them heal a bit of HP in addition to providing Protect or Shell sound?  The AI only casts the spells when their party members are injured, anyway.  I'm not sure whether having a skill concurrently use a MA*X formula for restoring HP and a MA+Y formula for adding a status effect is possible, though.  We might have to make the spells add the status at 100%, then bump up the JP, MP, or CT (or all three) to compensate.

Quote from: reinoe on January 06, 2013, 12:56:55 amWhom Speed +1 belongs to

My choice is Ninja.

Quote from: reinoe on January 06, 2013, 12:56:55 amStaves

I like The Damned suggestion of combining Healing Staff with Wizard Staff into a new staff (... called Healing Staff...) that gives +2 MA and heals.

Quote from: reinoe on January 06, 2013, 12:56:55 amArmour

Somebody (was it Raven?) made a nice post a few pages back about rebalanced armour.  I'll repost it in FFMaster's new thread.  I wasn't following the weapon changes as closely, so I'll let somebody else take care of that.

Quote from: The Damned on January 03, 2013, 02:24:52 amSince it came up when you originally suggested how to change Time Mage's stats for the better, how do you feel about Priest's stats now...?

I am kind of indifferent toward priest stats at the moment.  If we're going to drop Time Mages to 8 SP, then priests could still be bumped up the 9 SP, if only for the sake of variety.  But if 9 SP is truly awkward for caster types, then let's not bother.

Quote from: Dokurider... I would definitely like to see a shield wielding mage, preferably Oracles.

Oracles are indeed another option, but I am hesitant to give them access, myself.  Unlike Time Mages, Oracles are blessed with a solid skill set and decent stats.  For the low cost of 400 JP, Oracles may equip themselves with Defense UP.  Throw on Aegis Shields and they're ready to handle almost anything that's thrown their way.

They're definitely suited for shields, but, in my opinion, giving them shields makes them too good.

Quote from: MalrothI'm also starting to be a fan of Un-Fury based gun damage, having the guns proc nether fire/bolt/ice with MEV applying to the shots

Let's have a look at the damage.  I'll consider Glacier Gun since it's the strongest.  Using current values for Nether Ice and Glacier Gun, damage output from a user with 40 Brave is

Base: 75-105
With Elemental Strengthening and Magic Attack UP: 126-176

Given that this is as strong as they'll ever get, that's pretty weak for a gun that would take M-EV.  By comparison, Romanda Gun's optimal damage is 78-110 (base) and 102-143 (with Attack UP), and that bypasses P-EV and is insensitive to the target's elemental resistance.  Stone gun is even better, at 113-158 (base) and 151-211 (with Attack UP).  If we use Nether spells, we're going to have to keep letting the magic guns hit at 100%, and even then they'll be pretty unattractive.  Boosting their WP isn't an option, because we'll run into issues with Grand Cross and Kagesougi again.

I propose three options:

1) Make magic guns mildly strong, but let them continue to bypass M-EV.  This keeps the guns dependable for both dealing damage and healing party members that might be stacking M-EV.  I would like to have the guns proc a Nether spell that is stronger than the current ones, though.  (Nether Ice's current formula is MA*8; I would be comfortable with a Nether spell whose formula is MA*9 or MA*10)

2) Keep magic guns strong, but subject them to M-EV.  If a Nether-equivalent Ice 2 spell is made for Glacier Gun, then the gun's damage would be 103-145 (base) and 173-242 (maximised).  This is equal to its current damage output, with the only difference being that it can no longer be boosted with Pilgrimage.  This puts it on par with Stone Gun.  Its lack of "initial: Petrify" and slightly higher maximised damage makes up for its susceptibility to elemental resistance and M-EV and the general larger number of Setiemson wearers over Cherche wearers.  The high damage gives players a reason to stack M-EV, or to continue equipping Projectile Guard.  As a bonus, we can reduce the JP cost of Projectile Guard (from 300 to 200~250) to give players an easier time designing counter strategies.

3) Make magic guns use the current Nether formulas, but let them continue to bypass M-EV.  This will lead to the demise of magic guns.  Aside from in specialized elemental absorption teams, I highly doubt many players will consider using this version of magic guns.  Maybe players will finally start equipping their archers with those longbows and crossbows that have been neglected for so long.  Either that or they'll go back to using Stone Guns.  I bet they'll do the latter.

Quote from: The Damned...I'm just curious as to...why you suddenly decided their stats were fine even if they get Shields. That's (part of) what I don't get.

I'm just stirring the pot, I guess.  We can change their base stats, give them shields, or both.  Shields are a pretty huge boost, so I'm willing to keep their base stats poor if we go that way.

Quote from: The DamnedBasically their crappy HP and weird Speed--it either "needs" to go 8 or 10...

Well, in this case, the Zephyr Shield would boost their SP to 10 for you.  Setting their base SP to 10 and keeping them from being able to equip shields is equivalent to permanently equipping them with a Zephyr Shield (without the 5% evasion).  Of course, there is no -1 SP shield, so the SP stat won't be able to fall to 8.

This suggestion aside, I am also sensitive to the suggestions being made about Scholars.  I kind of like the idea of having a tank mage in the game.  One problem with this, though, is that most of Lore is heavily MA-based.  In fact, Time Magick is better suited as the primary skill set of a tank mage.  I think it would be better if we make Time Mages the tank class (ie. give them a massive boost in HP, a boost in PA, drop their SP to 8, possibly drop their MA to 8 -- although we won't want to do that if we expect these tank mages to menace their foes with staves -- and give them shields and a wider variety of weapons) and take Scholars weapons and PA away.  The Scholar sprite seems so much sturdier than the Time Mage sprite, though.  From an artistic viewpoint, I'd expect scholars to be the tank class.  Maybe we can swap sprites while we're at it.

As a matter of fact, I like this idea so much that I'm willing to propose a new set of base stats for Time Mages:


Male       HP  MP  SP  PA  MA Move Jump CEv
Time Mage 154  62  08  10  07    3    3   5
Scholar   113  86  08  04  10    3    3   5

Female     HP  MP  SP  PA  MA Move Jump CEv
Time Mage 144  67  08  08  09    3    3   5
Scholar   106  92  08  03  12    3    3   5


Time Mages would be comparable to Squires, but would have +1 MA, -10 HP, and -5 CEv.  I pulled these numbers off the top of my head, so shoot them down as you please.

Equipment would be something like

Time Mage: Swords, Staves, Books, Poles, Shields, Hats, Clothes, Robes, Accessories
Scholar: Rods, Hats, Clothes, Robes, Accessories

Subjecting the guns to M-EV is indeed another option.  If we subject them to M-EV, but keep them boostable with Pilgrimage, players will surely start to stack more M-EV.

As for making a second White Robe, the problem with that is that it adversely affects Black Magick, as well.  That's why we removed Venetian Shield in the first place.

Quote from: The DamnedAre "we" going to start giving things to (lesser) classes in lieu of trying to fix actual problems because just a few items in that category would benefit the class? If that's the case, then why not give Bards innate access to Bows so that Holy Bow could finally see some use? Better yet, why not give all Mages (or, hell, everyone) innate access to Armor if Hats other than Flash Hat are finally going to get more MP? Especially when everyone has trouble with status? Same with giving everyone Clothes. Everyone benefits from elemental absorption, right?

You're taking my counter-argument to a logical extreme.  I said every class enjoys the benefit of a shield to counter your point that Time Mages cannot use shields effectively without secondaries.  Indeed, every class benefits from status resistance and elemental absorption, too.  That doesn't mean every class gets them.

Quote from: The DamnedIn terms of balance, stats of course balance out shield access, which is part of the reason why I can't currently get behind your proposal: not only does it throw any stat "changes" to Time Mage into further chaos by adding in another option--"Leave Time Mage's stats as they are and just give them Shields"--but also doesn't solve the underlying problem of said stats...you know, being horrible. Or, at least, being the exact same as Mediator and then blown away in terms of HP. Time Mages don't really have jack-of-all-trade stats, much less good ones at present.

Would you mind specifying which stats in particular are holding the Time Mage back?  The way I see it, a Time Mage:

• with an Aegis Shield will match Priests and Oracles in terms of MA (with silence resistance to boot!)


• with a Kaiser Plate will match Summoners and nearly Wizards and Scholars in terms of MA when using Fire, Ice, and Lightning spells, (which is pretty limited, but that's perfectly fine.  I don't want Time Mages stealing Wizards' thunder -- or, rather, bolt.  Hah hah...)


• with an elemental shield will sacrifice base stats for extra elemental resistance

The shield's evasion covers for the poor base HP, making Time Mages squishier, but harder to hit -- a unique role among mage classes.  As for Time Mage's primaries, all are status-based -- well, except Comet, which hits 100% of the time and doesn't scale -- so none strongly depend on base stats.  They can use their primaries just as well now as they ever will.

Quote from: The Damned(As an aside, I will grant that a Glacier Gunner can't get past your set-up...easily. This is of course assuming that he doesn't have Shield Break [instead of Armor Break] or just have friends with Oil [or with Shield Break/Weapon Break/Armor Break]. Unless you're going to tell me that this already too-specialized, only-two-of set-up [that currently screws over the Time Mage's MP] also necessitates wearing Diamond Armlet or 108 Gems, which block Oil but leaves the user vulnerable to Silence now as well, or using Maintenance as a Support or both.

And all is well in the FFH universe.  Heaven forbid there is no counter to my setup.  At least gunners rock Shield Break in addition to Armor Break or need to spray around Oil now.  Using magic guns just got (a little) more difficult.

As my own aside: is it possible to have Oil simply add "Weak: Element" without overriding "Absorb: Element"?  When I proposed the change to Oil all those months ago, I didn't expect Oil to overwrite absorption.  What are other people's thoughts on this suggestion?

Quote from: The DamnedBasically you're telling me that spellguns aren't a problem just because some obscure set-up that drastically cuts down your actual options and can only be used as a two-of exists and might beat it. This despite the fact that said Gunners can just Hawk's Eye your face off, Oil you up and paddle you that way.

...Yeah. You might as just say "hey, Spellguns aren't a problem so long as you make every team you have two units with Projectile Guard and two Time Mages with either Black Magick or Summon Magick." Sounds fun.

I didn't say magic guns aren't a problem.  I simply gave an example of what shields make possible for a Time Mage.  No other mage class will be able to block Fire, Ice, and Lightning damage without utilising their support ability or accessory slot.

Quote from: The DamnedSpellguns either need to die or turn into "Nether" Spellguns so they don't get powered up by just walking around since obviously lowering their WP and making them consistent didn't do jack.)

Spell guns are a whole other can of worms.  We (and I'm not even sure who "we" is anymore) redesigned spell guns to remain a solid DPS option.  In fact, on average, they do less DPS now than they did when they were triggering three tiers of Black Magic. (On second thought, they might actually do a bit more, but with the removal of tier 2-3 procs, there's a smaller chance that they'll 1HKO their target.)  What's currently out of control is how they're being paired with Pilgrimage, which is boosting their solid DPS into ridiculously solid DPS.  Personally, I would kill Pilgrimage before magic guns, but seeing that Pilgrimage was just introduced with patch 1.39, I doubt that this suggestion is very popular.    Something else needs to change.  Making them "Nether" gets around the whole Warpath/Pilgrimage problem, so I think it's a good idea.

I think you're overanalysing it.  Everyone benefits from shields.  I put shields on an oracle and chemist in season one despite one being white magick support and the other being a gunner simply because I wanted the M-EV and elemental boosting.  I propose to give shields to Time Mages because they are the one mage class most sorely in need of these benefits.

QuoteIf "we" are going to give a mage class access to shields, then I think it should be more for reasons that are more than  "high Faith with M-EV" since as valid a reason as that is, mantles do exist and have been improved; similarly, Genji Gauntlet looks like it's going to continue to exist, so....

I don't see how this detracts from the proposal.  Making shields innate opens Time Mages to plenty more equipment options.  By equipping shields, their accessory slot is freed up for something else, like status resistance or stat boosting.  Everyone has access to mantles, so why aren't we pulling shields away from everybody?  I expect you answer this with my next quote, which I will summarise.

QuoteClasses with access to shields must:
1) be able to use all (or most) equally well
2) be able to pair them with weapons for melee combat
3) must not have skills in their primary skill set with long (3+) CT

First of all, I appreciate your effort in qualifying which classes are worthy of shields.  I thought I'd share my own philosophy about shields by going through these qualifiers one by one.

1. The class must be able to use all (or most) shields equally well

I argue that all classes can use all shields equally well.  The elemental resistance from Gold Shield, Platina Shield, and so on are universally applicable.  P-EV and M-EV are also universally applicable.  Granted, some - particularly Aegis Shield - will be more attractive to Time Mages than others, but that speaks more about the shields than their user.  Aegis Shield is popular with Geomancers for Draw Out and Geomancy because it gives an MA boost.  This doesn't mean we should pull shields from every class that stacks MA.  Similarly, Paladins can't use the absorption shields effectively because they have a hard time covering for the shields' attendant weaknesses.  In fact, Time Mages can use these shields better than Paladins because Time Mages have access to clothing.  This isn't grounds for pulling shields from Paladins.

In the end, the purpose the shield is put toward depends entirely on the player.  A player can put a Gold Shield on a Time Mage and cover the attendant Earth weakness with Earth Clothes just as well as the player can put an Aegis Shield on a Time Mage for an MA boost.  (Ice Shield, Black Costume, and Mace of Zeus is a solid counter to magic guns, by the way.  Face a Glacier gunner that tries to get around ice absorption, which is typically from Santa Outfits, with Armor Break and he'll be SOL.  That's a better reason to consider equipping an Ice Shield than there's ever been!)  There are as many possibilities as there are shields.

2. The class must be able to pair them with weapons for melee combat

I hope I'm not twisting the meaning of your second qualifier with this summary, but this is what I gathered when I read your statement about pairing shields with weapons for physical combat.  To be honest, I don't even know what to make of this qualifier.  Personally, I never saw the purpose of shields as being to assist melee combat.  Weapons assist melee combat.  This is, unless, you mean that shields are meant to cover the high Brave values that melee classes traditionally have, in which case I'd say that you are subjecting shields to a personal imposition.  Shields are equally worthy for covering high Faith values, as well.  They have M-EV for a reason, after all.

A shield is simply meant to keep its user alive.  Whether the player plans for this user to engage in melee combat is his or her prerogative.  Magic attacks hit from afar.  Avoiding melee combat does not keep units out of harm's way, so the shield is still going to see use on a Time Mage.

3. The class must not have skills in their primary skill set with long (3+) CT

This is your most valid qualifier.  Indeed, there will be times when a Time Mage toting a shield will be mid-charged.  This speaks only to the shield's P-EV and M-EV, though.  Like I said in my previous post, the shield serves a second purpose: boosting the Time Mage's lousy stats (or, alternatively, providing some elemental resistance).  Stat boosts and elemental resistances apply whether the Time Mage is mid-charged or not.  If the player is especially worried about being mid-charged, then he or she can give the Time Mage Short Charge, as always.  However, might I inform you that, if you equip a Time Mage with Zephyr Shield or Thief Hat, then, on the first turn of battle, all spells with 3 or fewer CT (lower tier Time Magick and Black Magick, most of the useful Yin Yang Magick, et cetera) will finish casting before 8 SP units get their first turn.  With Short Charge, all spells with (I think) 5 or fewer CT will do the same.  Alternatively, we can just reduce Time Mage's SP to 8 so players can make their Time Mages hug the bottom of the AT list.  This is actually what I suggested from the beginning.

Regardless, Time Mages will exploit their shield's P-EV and M-EV more often than you think.  Unless the Time Mage and every single opponent share the same SP, and that Time Mage is in the first unit position, the shield will invariably help keep the Time Mage alive.

In the end, Time Mages are no better off if we continue to deprive them of shields.  Think of the current Time Mage as getting mid-charged and losing out of the shield's evasion 100% of the time, because the shield is not there to begin with!

While other mage classes might indeed be more worthy of shields according to your qualifiers, I do not propose these classes get them because they are strong enough as it is.  For example, giving Wizards access to both Kaiser Plate and Magic Attack UP would be plain broken without an accompanying nerf to their base MA.  Giving Time Mages shields will not upset the balance so.

I've been thinking about Time Mages.  If we really (and I mean really) want to buff them, how about we keep their stats poor, but let them equip shields?  Then we'd let the player choose which stat gets boosted (ie. +1 MA from Aegis Shield, +1 SP from Zephyr Shield, +2-3 MA for elemental offense from Kaiser Plate - a Time Mage with Kaiser Plate and Magic Attack UP would be a formidable Black Magick user, although no more so than, say, a Geomancer, which is fine since both would have minimal recovery options).  We wouldn't even need to worry about buffing Haste over Masamune: the utility a shield provides will attract players to Time Mages, whereupon they'll make use of Haste whether it is inferior to Masamune or not.  This, in my opinion, is the best way to buff skills: promote new synergies while leaving currently popular formulas alone. That said, Haste still needs a buff to its constant (from 60 to 70-80), which I believe was brought up already.  The only build this change wouldn't promote is dual-wielding staves - a small price.

Time Mages will become the only mage class that can cover high Faith with M-EV.  I guarantee that Time Mages will see a lot more use for this very reason, poor base stats be damned.

I''d rather turn the Ninja class into a debuffing unit.  Give them a 0 CT ranged or self-targeting AoE skill that does damage and cancels Regen and/or Haste at 100% efficiency.  An AoE skill that cancels either of these buffs can be used well against Masamune since Masamune users can only buff one other unit at a time and need to bunch up to do so.  The skill would be less effective against the Haste and Regen skills, since these skills can be cast at a range and have a wider AoE.  Thematically, the skill could be depicted as an "explosive tag," such as the ones seen in Naruto.