FFT Arena AI Tournament Season 2 Registration

[CT5Holy]

So, commentators, who wants winner's bracket/loser's bracket? =P

[Barren]

I know I can do the Winner's Bracket. I do need one more person to help out with the winner's bracket. Then who ever is left can both take part in the loser's bracket

[Ahong]

Am i late to register?

[CT5Holy]

Alright, I guess I'll do the winner's bracket as well, assuming no objections.

Ahong: You have until next Monday to submit a team.

[Ahong]

Okay, i will put my best team in later. But, i need to calculate between AKRC and AKRC Black Edition.

[FFMaster]

Woooo, losers for me!

[reinoe]

Loser's bracket is way more exciting.  I plan on going there after round 1 just for the excitement.

[Barren]

Then that case, Doku or Damned could you help out FFMaster with the Loser's bracket?

[The Damned]

(I'll do Loser's bracket as well.)

It's more appropriate and, if I disappear for whatever reason, then it will be easier for you guys to recover. I'll try to give you a heads up if it's something I can "control" at least though.

[Barren]

Thank you, very much appreciated

[Reks]

Alrighty. Leaving for a good while now, so good luck to everyone!

[Ahong]

So, how can i register my team?

[Barren]

You PM me your team, I'm checking for teams as of right now.

[FFMaster]

Just so everyone knows, I also plan to livestream my recordings. Afterwards, if you miss them, they will appear on youtube.

[Barren]

That should be fun to watch

[Avalanche]

Livestream is great, i hope we see some dualcast live at the final

[reinoe]

Since this could affect the decision on which team I submit to the tournament: can we confirm if it's 3 medium, or is it going to be Large, Small, Medium.

I know that might sound weird, but I have a team that I'm considering that is more likely to lose on small maps, and I have another team that does proportionally better on medium and large maps.

[Barren]

I think we may do Medium, Small, Large. Its an order we haven't done before, at least not to the best of my knowledge

[The Damned]

(I...don't know to feel how about that map order, honestly. Admittedly, I also didn't know how to feel about the initial "Medium, Large, Small" you apparently accidentally posted. The currently suggested one seems to heavily favor melee teams.

The map order is ultimately up to you though, Barren.)

Speaking of map stuff, I was reminded that I wanted to again post the map stuff I've still been mulling over with regards to the "acceptable" maps for ARENA that got somewhat waylayed by the Jot5 focus and tag-teamed by my own indolence. I figure we should at least talk about a bit considering that Gaignun admitted his own map selection from last year was as thorough as he wanted when I modified it a bit about three or four months ago:

spoiler: Presently Accepted Maps of Gaignun at his Last Revision

Any parenthetical commentary here is Gaignun's.


1. 001 - At Main Gate of Igros Castle [Medium]
2. 002 - Back Gate of Lesalia Castle [Medium]
3. 003 - Hall of St. Murond Temple [Medium]
4. 004 - Office of Lesalia Castle [Small]
5. 005 - Roof of Riovanes Castle [Medium]
6. 006 - At the Gate of Riovanes Castle [Large]
7. 008 - Riovanes Castle [Small]
8. 010 - Inside of Igros Castle (movement restricted for units without fly/teleport/ignore height) [Medium]
9. 012 - Office of Igros Castle [Small]
10. 013 - Inside of Lionel Castle [Small]
11. 014 - Office of Igros Castle (extremely small - teams are susceptible to fatal first round AoE) [Small]
12. 016 - Inside of Limberry Castle [Medium]
13. 017 - Underground Cemetary of Limberry Castle [Medium]
14. 018 - Office of Limberry Castle [Small]
15. 019 - At the Gate of Limberry Castle (2) [Medium]
16. 020 - Inside of Zeltennia Castle [Small]
17. 021 - Zeltennia Castle [Small]
18. 022 - Magic City Gariland [Medium]
19. 024 - Military Academy's Auditorium (units with fly/teleport can escape to the elevated platform) [Small]
20. 025 - Yardow Fort City [Small]
21. 027 - Goland Coal City [Medium]
22. 028 - Colliery Underground First Floor (large size, but fighting is clustered in the high region) [Medium]
23. 029 - Colliery Underground Second Floor [Large]
24. 030 - Colliery Underground Third Floor [Large]
25. 031 - Dorter Trade City [Medium]
26. 032 - Slums in Dorter (large size, but fighting is clustered on the ground) [Medium]
27. 034 - Cellar of Sand Mouse [Medium]
28. 035 - Zaland Fort City [Medium]
29. 037 - Ruins Outside Zaland [Large]
30. 044 - Bervenia Free City [Large]
31. 045 - Ruins of Zeltennia Castle's Church [Large]
32. 046 - Cemetary of Heavenly Knight Balbanes (medium size, but placement is separated) [Large]
33. 048 - Slums in Zarghidas (large size, but fighting is clustered on one half of the map) [Medium]
34. 049 - Fort Zeakden [Medium]
35. 051 - St. Murond Temple [Small]
36. 053 - Entrance to Death City (units can escape melee damage by fleeing the centre platform) [Small]
37. 054 - Lost Sacred Precincts (bottlenecks exist, but there is plenty of room to run around) [Large]
38. 055 - Graveyard of Airships [Large]
39. 056 - Orbonne Monastery [Medium]
40. 058 - Underground Book Storage Second Floor (medium size, but fighting is clustered above the stairs) [Small]
41. 060 - Underground Book Storage Fourth Floor (large size, but fighting is clustered in the lower region) [Medium]
42. 061 - Underground Book Storage Fifth Floor [Large]
43. 063 - Golgorland Execution Site [Medium - may go]
44. 065 - Granary of Bethla Garrison [Small]
45. 068 - Bethla Garrison [Small]
46. 069 - Murond Death City [Medium]
47. 071 - Dolbodar Swamp [Large]
48. 072 - Fovoham Plains (large size, but fighting is clustered by the water) [Medium]
49. 073 - Inside of Windmill Shed (units might attempt to throw items through the elevated platform and fail) [Small]
50. 074 - Sweegy Woods [Large]
51. 075 - Bervenia Volcano [Medium - improve start points]
52. 076 - Zeklaus Desert [Large]
53. 077 - Lenalia Plateau [Medium]
54. 079 - Yuguo Woods [Medium]
55. 080 - Araguay Woods [Medium - more a Large Map]
56. 084 - Bariaus Hill (close placement) [Large]
57. 085 - Mandalia Plains (fighting tends to cluster in one corner) [Large]
58. 086 - Doguola Pass (medium size, but clustered fighting in low region) [Small]
59. 087 - Bariaus Valley [Large]
60. 088 - Finath River [Large]
61. 089 - Poeskas Lake [Large]
62. 090 - Germinas Peak [Medium]
63. 091 - Thieves Fort [Medium]
64. 092 - Igros, Beoulve Residence [Small]
65. 094 - Broke Down Shed-Stone Building [Small]
66. 096 - Pub [Small]
67. 098 - Outside Castle Gate in Lesalia [Medium]
68. 100 - Public Cemetary [Large]
69. 101 - Tutorial (1) [Medium]
70. 102 - Tutorial (2) [Large]
71. 103 - Windmill Shed (distant unit placement for a small map) [Small - has other problems. Should go?]
72. 105 - TERMINATE [Large]
73. 106 - DELTA [Large]
74. 108 - VOYAGE (map is large, but narrow) [Medium]
75. 109 - BRIDGE [Large]
76. 110 - VALKYRIES (extremely distant placement and clustered fighting upon contact) [Large - should go]
77. 112 - TIGER (units with fly/teleport outpace their team) [Large]
78. 113 - HORROR (large map, but fighting is clustered on one side) [Small]
79. 118 - Checkerboard Land 2 [Medium]
80. 125 - Checkerboard Stairs [Large]

spoiler: Maps That I Had to Check for Being Unacceptable

I didn't check map 000, though apparently it's an utterly broken map, at least on the visual level...which is kind of important.

All bracket commentary here is mine. Some of it's probably outdated.


1. 007 - Inside of Riovanes Castle [seems fine as Medium]
2. 009 - Citadel of Igros Castle [cannot be fixed]
3. 011 - Office of Igros Castle [possibly fine; Small]
4. 015 - At the Gate of Limberry Castle (1) [no fix]
5. 023 - Belouve [sic] Residence [Outside; fine?; Small]
6. 026 - Weapon Storage of Yardow [fine? narrow=4tile; L]
7. 033 - Hospital in Slums ["3D" map; maybe fine; Large]
8. 036 - Church Outside of Town [fine w/ differed start?]
9. 038 - Goug Machine City [cannot be fixed]
10. 039 - Underground Passage in Goland [like 026; Large]
11. 040 - Slums in Goug [personally seems fine; Med or L]
12. 041 - Besrodio's House [just take out orrery; Med]
13. 042 - Warjilis Trade City [P1 H-adv? Fine?; Medium]
14. 043 - Port of Warjilis [P2 H-adv? Fine?; Medium]
15. 047 - Zarghidas Trade City [fine; Medium or Large?]
16. 050 - St. Murond Temple [Outside; cannot be fixed]
17. 052 - Chapel of St. Murond Temple [Zalbag; no fix?]
18. 057 - Underground Book Storage First Floor [OK? M? L?]
19. 059 - Underground Book Storage Third Floor [fine?; L]
20. 062 - Chapel of Orbonne Monastery [cannot be fixed]
21. 064 - In Front of Bethla Garrison's Sluice [no fix]
22. 066 - South Wall of Bethla Garrison [fine?; Medium]
23. 067 - Noth [sic] Wall of Bethla Garrison [no fix]
24. 070 - Nelveska Temple [banned for good reason]
25. 078 - Zigolis Swamp [cannot be fixed?]
26. 081 - Grog Hill [cannot be fixed?; would be Large]
27. 082 - Bed Desert [can be fixed?; would be Large]
28. 083 - Zirekile Falls [cannot be fixed]
29. 093 - Broke Down Shed-Wooden Building [Dortr1; OK?; S]
30. 095 - Church [fine; Medium map]
31. 097 - Inside Castle Gate in Lesalia [fine?; Medium]
32. 099 - Main Street of Lesalia [fine; Large map]
33. 104 - Belouve [sic?] Residence [Repeat of 092]
34. 107 - NOGIAS [cannot be fixed]
35. 111 - MLAPAN [possibly fine...outside of Fly; "Small"]
36. 114 - END [banned for good reason]
37. 115 - Banished Fort [cannot be fixed]
38. 116 - Arena [could easily be fixed with better start]
39. 117 - Checkboard Land 1 [cannot be fixed]
40. 119 - Checkboard Land 3 [just 118 with different start]
41. 120 - [doesn't exist?]
42. 121 - [doesn't exist?]
43. 122 - [doesn't exist?]
44. 123 - [doesn't exist?]
45. 124 - [doesn't exist?]

spoiler: The Accepted Maps I was Using for ARENA for Recordings

As for maps, I decided to get rid of VALKYRIES and Windowmill Shed, shifted Araguay Woods from a Medium map to a Large and added about a dozen maps. "We" really need more Small maps though:

spoiler: Large Maps

LARGE MAPS:
1. 006 - At the Gate of Riovanes Castle
2. 026 - Weapon Storage of Yardow [fine? narrow=4tile]
3. 029 - Colliery Underground Second Floor
4. 030 - Colliery Underground Third Floor
5. 033 - Hospital in Slums ["3D" map; maybe fine]
6. 037 - Ruins Outside Zaland
7. 039 - Underground Passage in Goland [like 026]
8. 040 - Slums in Goug [personally seems fine; could be Medium, but for now Large]
9. 044 - Bervenia Free City
9. 045 - Ruins of Zeltennia Castle's Church
10. 046 - Cemetary of Heavenly Knight Balbanes ["medium size, but placement is separated" - Gaignun]
11. 047 - Zarghidas Trade City [fine; arguably only Medium, but using this as a Large for now]
12. 054 - Lost Sacred Precincts ["bottlenecks exist, but there is plenty of room to run around" - Gaignun]
13. 055 - Graveyard of Airships
14. 059 - Underground Book Storage Third Floor [fine?]
15. 061 - Underground Book Storage Fifth Floor
16. 071 - Dolbodar Swamp
17. 074 - Sweegy Woods
18. 076 - Zeklaus Desert
19. 080 - Araguay Woods [now promoted from Gaignun's assignment as a Medium map to a Large map]
20. 084 - Bariaus Hill ["close placement" - Gaignun]
21. 085 - Mandalia Plains ["fighting tends to cluster in one corner" - Gaignun]
22. 087 - Bariaus Valley
23. 088 - Finath River [arguably more of a Medium due to starting positions; then again, there *is* lots of water in the way]
24. 089 - Poeskas Lake
25. 099 - Main Street of Lesalia [fine]
26. 100 - Public Cemetary
27. 102 - Tutorial (2)
28. 105 - TERMINATE
29. 106 - DELTA
30. 109 - BRIDGE
31. 112 - TIGER ["units with fly/teleport outpace their team" - Gaignun]
32. 125 - Checkerboard Stairs

spoiler: Small Maps

SMALL MAPS:
1. 004 - Office of Lesalia Castle
2. 008 - Riovanes Castle
3. 011 - Office of Igros Castle [possibly fine]
4. 012 - Office of Igros Castle
5. 013 - Inside of Lionel Castle
6. 014 - Office of Igros Castle [extremely small - teams are susceptible to fatal first round AoE - Gaignun]
7. 018 - Office of Limberry Castle
8. 020 - Inside of Zeltennia Castle
9. 021 - Zeltennia Castle
10. 023 - Belouve [sic] Residence [Outside; fine-ish?]
11. 024 - Military Academy's Auditorium ["units with fly/teleport can escape to the elevated platform" - Gaignun]
12. 025 - Yardow Fort City
13. 051 - St. Murond Temple
14. 053 - Entrance to Death City ["units can escape melee damage by fleeing the centre platform" - Gaignun]
15. 058 - Underground Book Storage Second Floor ["medium size, but fighting is clustered above the stairs" - Gaignun]
16. 065 - Granary of Bethla Garrison
17. 068 - Bethla Garrison
18. 073 - Inside of Windmill Shed ["units might attempt to throw items through the elevated platform and fail" - Gaignun]
19. 086 - Doguola Pass ["medium size, but clustered fighting in low region" - Gaignun]
20. 092 - Igros, Beoulve Residence
21. 093 - Broke Down Shed-Wooden Building [Dorter 1; fine]
22. 094 - Broke Down Shed-Stone Building [Wiegraf & Elmdor]
23. 096 - Pub
24. 113 - HORROR ["large map, but fighting is clustered on one side" - Gaignun]

spoiler: Medium Maps

MEDIUM MAPS:
1. 001 - At Main Gate of Igros Castle
2. 002 - Back Gate of Lesalia Castle
3. 003 - Hall of St. Murond Temple
4. 005 - Roof of Riovanes Castle
5. 007 - Inside of Riovanes Castle
6. 010 - Inside of Igros Castle ["movement restricted for units without fly/teleport/ignore height" - Gaignun]
7. 016 - Inside of Limberry Castle
8. 017 - Underground Cemetary of Limberry Castle
9. 019 - At the Gate of Limberry Castle (2)
10. 022 - Magic City Gariland
11. 027 - Goland Coal City [arguably Large, if only because of how the AI tends to act due to the house in the middle of the field]
12. 028 - Colliery Underground First Floor ["large size, but fighting is clustered in the high region" - Gaignun]
13. 031 - Dorter Trade City
14. 032 - Slums in Dorter ["large size, but fighting is clustered on the ground" - Gaignun"]
15. 034 - Cellar of Sand Mouse
16. 035 - Zaland Fort City
17. 041 - Besrodio's House [just take out orrery; even with it, more or less fine]
18. 042 - Warjilis Trade City [P1 H-adv? Fine?]
19. 043 - Port of Warjilis [P2 H-adv? Fine?; Medium]
20. 048 - Slums in Zarghidas ["large size, but fighting is clustered on one half of the map" - Gaignun]
21. 049 - Fort Zeakden
22. 056 - Orbonne Monastery
23. 057 - Underground Book Storage First Floor [OK? Might be Large if the starting positions were changed, which they might need to be....]
24. 060 - Underground Book Storage Fourth Floor (large size, but fighting is clustered in the lower region)
25. 063 - Golgorland Execution Site
26. 066 - South Wall of Bethla Garrison [fine?]
27. 069 - Murond Death City
28. 072 - Fovoham Plains ["large size, but fighting is clustered by the water" - Gaignun]
29. 075 - Bervenia Volcano [more or less fine as it is, but the start points could & should be greatly improved]
30. 077 - Lenalia Plateau [arguably more a Small map due to starting positions]
31. 079 - Yuguo Woods [maybe more of a Large map]
32. 090 - Germinas Peak
33. 091 - Thieves Fort
34. 095 - Church [fine]
35. 098 - Outside Castle Gate in Lesalia
36. 101 - Tutorial (1)
37. 108 - VOYAGE ["map is large, but narrow" - Gaignun]
38. 116 - Arena [could probably easily be fixed with better starting positions]
39. 118 - Checkerboard Land 2

So...uh, yeah. Probably should have brought this up (much) earlier. Apologies.

Internet-less EDIT: Ugh. I can finally fix that damn spoiler error even if my Internet is still "gone".

[Gaignun]

Thanks for the revisions.  A few comments:

Hospital in Slums: Aside from being visually disorienting and containing bottlenecks, this map gives spellcasters an overwhelming advantage.  Imagine the grief of trying to reach stationary Lore/Dance users while being held up by tanks blocking the doorways.  For these reasons, I think it should still be omitted.

Fovoham Plains: I know I labeled this medium, but on second thought, it should probably be large.  We need fewer medium maps and more large ones, anyway.

Warjilis Trade City:  P1 is fenced in by the water.  Meanwhile, P2 has an entire city to retreat into when taking heat.  It's not balanced.

Port of Warjilis:  Nasty, nasty bottlenecks.  Me no like.

The rest looks more or less fine.

I think we may do Medium, Small, Large. Its an order we haven't done before, at least not to the best of my knowledge

I endorse this motion.  Large maps give teams an opportunity to spam Quickening at the start of battle, as well as room for spellgunners to run and gun.  Putting large maps last will challenge these strategies, if only ever so slightly.