Making Holy Sword actually have Holy elemental.

[VincentCraven]

What is better: having Holy Sword work as it does right now or have Holy Sword use its Holy elemental by changing it so that it is not WP based?  Seems to me that by making holy sword skills use MA*Y formula would make it less broken.

Anyone else already done this?  Holy and Dark skills are not too common IIRC, though there really isn't an equivalent formula for Night Sword/Dark Sword.

[Kourama]

Well I've changed a few of the Holy Sword skills to just different elements depending on the nature of the animation.

Lightning Stab is Lightning Elemental
Holy Explosion is Holy Elemental
Stasis Sword is Ice Elemental

Haven't really had a chance to use the skills enough in my patch yet since I'm still at the beginning of Ch 2 but hopefully it makes them more situational.

[VincentCraven]

what formula did you use? If you didn't change the formula, the element will be ignored (except by AI, which "thinks" that the element is in effect).

[Asmo X]

I do like the idea of separating Sword skills from weapon power. The WP spread among both types of swords is a real problem here. I'd give the MA*Y thing a go for sure.

[VincentCraven]

Sweet. I might make a Chocobo Wars patch with this in it after I finish my "Vanilla version" patch.  If I do make such a patch, I will also do my signature 'cut growths in half' tactic, so sword skills will not become outdated at end game by any stretch.

[LastingDawn]

Haha! Thank you Vincent Craven! That should make Delita's Elemental Holy Sword alot more convincing, with the elements actually working.

[VincentCraven]

One more thing:  anyone using this formula (or any magic based formula) for Holy Sword should know that changing the status infliction from Separate to All/Nothing is necessary for the sword skill to add a status.

[woodenbandman]

But if you change it to MA x Y it will either

A: Become too weak and obsolete or

B: Become the new draw out. Wizard with Equip Sword can easily reach 20 MA. that makes it even more overpowered depending on the Y value.

Face it, Holy Sword is just broken.

[VincentCraven]

Not if you

1) Don't make Holy Sword available until late game or stagnate growths.

2) Not make Holy Sword really powerful.

Plus, it's not hard to balance Draw Out. So the same goes for Holy Sword.

[Zozma]

its better that they use a pa based formula, well at least IMO i dont think of them as magic as much as i do a sword skill.

also, would giving them 2 elements actually work? like for example
stasis sword looks like ice, but its a "holy" sword skill right? so ice and holy... but if you have 2 elements selected will the first one that appears overwrite the second?

[VincentCraven]

Hmm... I haven't tested.

What PA formula are you going to use though that allows elements to work? (PA+Y)/2*PA?

 IMO i dont think of them as magic as much as i do a magic sword skill.  =p

 Plus, it gives a reason to use regular attacks.

Edit: It appears that elements stack.  For instance, if Lightning Stab is Lightning and Holy (and it uses the MA*Y formula to allow elements), then a unit that absorbs holy but is wearing an Ice shield (weak to Lightning) will absorb 2x the normal amount of HP.  A unit that is weak to holy but halves lightning will receive the normal amount of damage.  A unit immune to either holy or lightning will be immune to Lightning Stab, regardless of the other element affiliation.

[Archael]

1.3 sword skills suck balls (comparatively) and they are using the same old 2D formula, with much lower Y values, evadeable, MP Costs and a nerf to K Swords

that's more than enough to make them just a LITTLE more useful than most generic skillsets, but still won't win fights for you, by any means


MA * Y would make it either completely useless or completely broken with stacked MA


also thanks for pointing out the element thing, no sword skill with 2D should carry element flag since it will always go off the weapon element anyway

[VincentCraven]

Yea, unfortunately with your patch you can't really scale the MA*Y Holy Sword skill correctly since your units grow so much AND Agrias comes in at the beginning of Ch2 with Holy Sword.

Fortunately for me, I'm not bound by the limitations of regular gameplay.  Neither is Lasting Dawn with his "Mercenaries" patch, though it sounds like sword skills will be available early in his patch too. >.>

[LastingDawn]

Only people with Holy Sword are bosses, Agrias and Delita respectively. As seen in the Lion War Tourney video, Agrias and Delita have collectively 8 new Holy Sword moves. Some dealing with MA, some withthe original Formula.

[DonalbaneBeoulve]

Only people with Holy Sword are bosses, Agrias and Delita respectively. As seen in the Lion War Tourney video, Agrias and Delita have collectively 8 new Holy Sword moves. Some dealing with MA, some withthe original Formula.

Noob question, but would the new 8 abilities be revamps of the originals (hacks) or an entirely new set of 8 added to WoTL?

[LastingDawn]

Oh, their hacks. The 8 skills are...

Glacier Skewer
Knights of Konoe
*Agrias*

Candle Fire
Black Sheep Stampede
Tainted Holly
Arbiter's Blade
Cleansing Call (Had I only realized that WoTL used this as well...)
*Delita*

[BeoulveBlack]

i personally think the holy sword skills need to use the same formula as the elementals [ (PA+K)/2*MA ] and have an mp cost; this way they...

a. are not too broken, as MA stacking doesn't affect it as much (as opposed to [ (MA+K)/2*MA ] or MA*K), you can have a bigger difference in 'K' values resulting in slightly more varied dmg, and MA stacking will result in a much weaker regular attack (crippling you after mp exhausts)

b. you can't go and equip a chaos blade and OHKO everything since it's independent of the WP (the sword spirit doesn't really know if the blade's any sharper than the next sword, now does it?)

c. it is generally slightly weaker than the physical attack (well, not the stronger ones, like h. explosion), so when you're close, there is an incentive to attack physically (saves mp and in most cases is stronger)

i've done this in my patch, and holy sword only belongs to agrias/delita and BOSSES ONLY*, and it definitely balances sword skills without crippling them**


    Example: Agrias, PA=4 MA=5 HP=200 (with armor) MP=27
    uses Stasis Sword (K=19, 10mp) with a Mythril Sword (WP=7)
                                          AND
    Agrias, PA=11(+3) MA=14(+2) HP=5-600 (w/ RoL/DA) MP=180
    uses Holy Explosion (K=31, 22mp) with a Ragnarok (WP=24)
   
    old formula: first agrias=28 and 36 / second agrias= 336 and 406
    new form.: 1st=28 and 55(2 times) / 2nd= 336 and 352(8 times)

MALES
-better normal attack
-slightly weaker SS's (because of PA adding to the K, THEN being multiplied by a whole MA)***
-less SS uses (MP)
-more durable (HP)

FEMALES
-weaker normal attack
-slightly stronger SS's
-less durable (well, barring cheap-age - changed in my patch)
-more SS uses

as you can see, the damage-to-number of uses per battle balances itself nicely throughout the game; bosses naturally in my patch have better mp and are at higher levels, so this way, holy knights are still knights, not non-mp non-charge high hp non-reflectable non-evadable faith ignoring mages!

*orlandu and meli don't count; i plan on using ramza, a heavily modded agrias, corban, and a new character (coming soon), so no room for meli, and orlandu, well, let's just say i NEVER use him...
**mighty sword is meant to be the end-all for human units, so i kept them as is; only bosses use them anyways (see above)
***w/ the mythril sword example, if agrias was a guy (6-7 PA), then he could p. attack almost as strong as her 2-per-battle SS!