SCC Tourney anyone?

[Barren]

You can still have summoner or wizard. What gaignun was suggesting was that you can pick two of your favorite classes then between the two classes you picked its a lottery pick then between summoner and wizard are your chances. Like a 50/50 chance

[silentkaster]

Well i am already fixated on my choice of having summoners as my team.... i am sorry if this seems shallow but... i will back out if i am unable to do so... summoner and wizard has always been my personal favorite classes.

I don't think you have much to worry about. Could be wrong, but I think that there won't be too many people wanting a Summoner primary so I'm sure you'll be fine.

As far as classes, I'm trying to choose different ones that I usually don't on purpose. I want to try to maximize the effect.

Sorry, Mudvayne I meant my post to go in the other thread. While I can agree, in liking to see everyone post a different class, I also know we are a hyper competitive bunch who would rather not be saddled with a "disadvantage". And yes randoming out a class to people who've never used it would suck.

(If I got squire or Oracle I'd be very perplexed at how to make their skillsets effective on four characters + secondaries.)

Squires are actually pretty good in Arena. Their stats are decent enough to make them fit well with a lot of secondaries, and their equipment choices are excellent.

Oracles aren't bad, either. Rouroni Elmdor's has an all Oracle team that does pretty well (admittedly, they are two sets of twins so with the unique item and ability rule, they'd have to change.)

Actually, I think some of the more challenging classes would be Paladin, Archer, Dancer and Time Mage. (Mime as well, though depending on rules they may be well represented regardless.)

I think before forcing people to do something, we should get volunteers to use certain classes that will likely be under represented, knowing that if they pick a saturated class, theres a very real chance they may have to change. I've got about four teams already, and I plan on only posting the least saturated class of the four (though that will still depend on the final mime rule.)

Some of this could be helped too by posting your first and second class choice ahead of time. This will help get a potential tally.

[Corosar]

My planned team was gonna have

Summoner/Wizard
Summoner/Wizard
Summoner/Oracle
Summoner/Priest

as i kinda said... i am fixated with summoners... i know they are not the best units but they are fun to me!~

[Barren]

I think that will be fine silentkaster. Like he said corosar it really isn't "you can't have this class because someone else has it" type of rule.

I'm only asking for variety because I like seeing people using different classes instead of multiples of the same class used. You picking summoner is perfectly fine corosar. I hope that cleared things up for you

[Corosar]

Yea it clears up quite a bit thanks! i just kinda wanted to have the class... already been trying to figure stuff out around them

[Reks]

I don't think you have much to worry about. Could be wrong, but I think that there won't be too many people wanting a Summoner primary so I'm sure you'll be fine.

As far as classes, I'm trying to choose different ones that I usually don't on purpose. I want to try to maximize the effect.

Squires are actually pretty good in Arena. Their stats are decent enough to make them fit well with a lot of secondaries, and their equipment choices are excellent.

Oracles aren't bad, either. Rouroni Elmdor's has an all Oracle team that does pretty well (admittedly, they are two sets of twins so with the unique item and ability rule, they'd have to change.)

Actually, I think some of the more challenging classes would be Paladin, Archer, Dancer and Time Mage. (Mime as well, though depending on rules they may be well represented regardless.)

I think before forcing people to do something, we should get volunteers to use certain classes that will likely be under represented, knowing that if they pick a saturated class, theres a very real chance they may have to change. I've got about four teams already, and I plan on only posting the least saturated class of the four (though that will still depend on the final mime rule.)

Some of this could be helped too by posting your first and second class choice ahead of time. This will help get a potential tally.

Squires can fill any role and do them well.

I already have a team of four Squires posted, but I'd prefer to make a new one if I can use Squires for this.

[Barren]

I too have a team of squires though a different version I have I did not yet post.

Also I have PM'd Gaignun about the different opinions on the rules for this tourney. Hopefully we can all come into agreement of a ruling that everyone will be fine with. If everyone feels we all should pick their class then we shall go with it.

[silentkaster]

Also, if mimes are allowed, I'd suggest that if the rule sticks that you are able to use two copies of an ability, that if a team uses a Mime, they can have only one copy of the ability on all units. The reason for this was really derived for "brokenness", specifically, Quickening. Essentially, with a mime, three units would have Quickening. But it could also be applied to Battle Song, Accumulate, Last Dance, etc.

I'll totally volunteer to take an underused/unused class and make a team out of them, by the way. While I already have four teams I created, and they are with classes that I don't think will be highly used, if a class remains totally unused or underused, I'll make a team of that particular class if asked to as my submission for the tournament (except a Mime team...but like I said, I think they're going to be well represented anyway based on what people are currently saying, and even if they're not, this class has a huge disadvantage since Mimes can't mime mimes [as CT5Holy has made us aware of ], can't equip weapons [reliably] and have poor stats in general.)

[Reks]

Also, if mimes are allowed, I'd suggest that if the rule sticks that you are able to use two copies of an ability, that if a team uses a Mime, they can have only one copy of the ability on all units. The reason for this was really derived for "brokenness", specifically, Quickening. Essentially, with a mime, three units would have Quickening. But it could also be applied to Battle Song, Accumulate, Last Dance, etc.

I'll totally volunteer to take an underused/unused class and make a team out of them, by the way. While I already have four teams I created, and they are with classes that I don't think will be highly used, if a class remains totally unused or underused, I'll make a team of that particular class if asked to as my submission for the tournament (except a Mime team...but like I said, I think they're going to be well represented anyway based on what people are currently saying, and even if they're not, this class has a huge disadvantage since Mimes can't mime mimes [as CT5Holy has made us aware of ], can't equip weapons [reliably] and have poor stats in general.)

Mimes don't mime each other, though.

A team of four mimes loses their main quirk.

[Corosar]

I kinda agree with silentkaster about the mimes they could be considered having all the skills at once for a more balanced reason... if it makes sense.

[Mudvayne]

I also would like to use an under-used class, but I don't want to feel like I'm at a disadvantage going up against say 5 different teams of samurais.

I feel like stat wise, squire geomancer and samurai are going to be the 3 best classes since they can all fill both a melee and a magical role quite well. I would say those would be MY top 3 picks, at least.

I think 2x item/2x ability, no JP cap is going to be the best way to do this. Why are we so fixated on limiting to 1 item or 1 ability? That isn't fun to me. I have 4 geomancers but only one unit is going to be able to even use the skillset, and only one unit using counter flood? Not fun, won't participate.

[Corosar]

I honestly agree we should have 2x Abilities but 2x items with no jp cap... could cause issues i feel.. 1x or 2x items i am fine with but we need those duplicate abilities for a SCC or... well we kinda end up helpless

[silentkaster]

I also would like to use an under-used class, but I don't want to feel like I'm at a disadvantage going up against say 5 different teams of samurais.

I feel like stat wise, squire geomancer and samurai are going to be the 3 best classes since they can all fill both a melee and a magical role quite well. I would say those would be MY top 3 picks, at least.

I think 2x item/2x ability, no JP cap is going to be the best way to do this. Why are we so fixated on limiting to 1 item or 1 ability? That isn't fun to me. I have 4 geomancers but only one unit is going to be able to even use the skillset, and only one unit using counter flood? Not fun, won't participate.

Barren abolished the one ability rule from that particular ruleset. Now, two copies of an ability can appear on any unit, but only one item if those rules are chosen.

The one item rule is there to balance the No JP cap...while you can buy any ability you want and stack them however you want, your equipment must differ.

The reason I suggested that any team with a Mime only gets one copy of the ability is because I'm really not interested in seeing an all Monk team with two users having Quickening with a Mime mimicking. I'm also not interested in seeing a Scholar earth absorb team where they can simultaneously cast four Quakes on an enemy team, especially when equipment for everyone is limited and rules are limited.

Finally, I'd like to ask if we can all agree to stop saying, "I won't participate if..." because this makes people feel ashamed of suggesting a rule or forcing them to compromise because someone refuses to participate based on something. If you don't want to participate based on a suggestion or rule, don't, and if you have some insight on a rule that you think may or may not be good, feel free to share, but please don't make someone feel bad for suggesting or supporting a rule by saying you won't participate if it's passed. As I said, I'm completely willing to make a team of any class except all Mimes and use it as my submission even if it's a class I had never even considered. And if the tournament really really needed it, I'd even try my hand at an all Mime team. There may be some rules I disagree with, but since I already said I was participating, I definitely will regardless of what is chosen, and I'll take as much advantage of the rules chosen as possible.

[dw6561]

Mimes don't mime each other, though.

A team of four mimes loses their main quirk.

What a coincidence, I was just thinking about how funny it would be if someone designed an all mime team. Can mimes still mimic actions from charmed units? If so it would be hilarious if an all mime team made good use out of that (and stupid because it would probably backfire).

[Corosar]

Barren abolished the one ability rule from that particular ruleset. Now, two copies of an ability can appear on any unit, but only one item if those rules are chosen.

The one item rule is there to balance the No JP cap...while you can buy any ability you want and stack them however you want, your equipment must differ.

The reason I suggested that any team with a Mime only gets one copy of the ability is because I'm really not interested in seeing an all Monk team with two users having Quickening with a Mime mimicking. I'm also not interested in seeing a Scholar earth absorb team where they can simultaneously cast four Quakes on an enemy team, especially when equipment for everyone is limited and rules are limited.

Finally, I'd like to ask if we can all agree to stop saying, "I won't participate if..." because this makes people feel ashamed of suggesting a rule or forcing them to compromise because someone refuses to participate based on something. If you don't want to participate based on a suggestion or rule, don't, and if you have some insight on a rule that you think may or may not be good, feel free to share, but please don't make someone feel bad for suggesting or supporting a rule by saying you won't participate if it's passed. As I said, I'm completely willing to make a team of any class except all Mimes and use it as my submission even if it's a class I had never even considered. And if the tournament really really needed it, I'd even try my hand at an all Mime team. There may be some rules I disagree with, but since I already said I was participating, I definitely will regardless of what is chosen, and I'll take as much advantage of the rules chosen as possible.

I never said i won't participate if... i said i would have to back out... i don't like giving others the feeling that i refuse to partake in a tourney if the rules are unsatisfactory... but i am still new to this and i rather try and use what i know i have a small chance of not being lawnmowed  instead of being bowled over simply because i don't understand a mechanic with a unit class i am forced under.. its why i stated that i would have had to back out under those conditions... sorry if i came off as selfish for it... i am again still new to the system and am still learning alot. but with the recent idea of choosing two classes and being picked between the two is something that helps compensate enough for me to not feel like a third wheel..

[silentkaster]

I never said i won't participate if... i said i would have to back out... i don't like giving others the feeling that i refuse to partake in a tourney if the rules are unsatisfactory... but i am still new to this and i rather try and use what i know i have a small chance of not being lawnmowed  instead of being bowled over simply because i don't understand a mechanic with a unit class i am forced under.. its why i stated that i would have had to back out under those conditions... sorry if i came off as selfish for it... i am again still new to the system and am still learning alot. but with the recent idea of choosing two classes and being picked between the two is something that helps compensate enough for me to not feel like a third wheel..

It is a very valid point and personally, I agree with you. I honestly would like all of the more experienced players to choose classes that are much less popular. It evens the playing field a bit and showcases abilities. But if Barren kicks my butt with his all scholar team (as an example) because I'm forced to use an all lancer team (I think Jump is the worst skill set but more on that in another thread), i am okay with that. I personally think that new players should be given first "dibs" on classes if we choose to make a rule about having duplicate classes.

In any event, I'm just asking that we avoid saying outright we won't participate if...
I think it is certainly fine to imply that, and I think general discussion of rules, especially ones that could possibly impact participation is necessary, but to outright say it could potentially make people scared to suggest something, so I believe it is better to just discuss the rule and take a consensus without the knowledge of whether people will participate or they won't based on a certain rule.

As I said though earlier though, I'm pretty sure Summoner is all yours Corosar

[Barren]

Well there is a way around that mudvayne. You can have someone with a full elemental skillset and the other have counter flood. And by two abilities I do mean you can have two units with counter flood and elemental. The reason for the one item clause is that people are going to continue use the same items because they are the predominant choices.

Like who uses two platinum swords or a two handed ultima weapon? No one. That's the point of the one item clause. If everyone would rather see regular Arena rules with the jp cap gone then I will gladly make that exception. But right now nothing is set in stone. There is still time to discuss the rules

[Shintroy]

I wanted to have Archers with a Mime/Snipe thrown in somewhere. I think it's fine to allow mimes on a team if they're restricted to have their secondary match the team they're on. I can see most mimes not even having secondary skills learned.

[Mudvayne]

The only thing that I really disliked was the 1x ability on a SCC tourney. You have 4 units in the same class and only one unit can use each particular skill. That just doesn't seem like a good rule. 2x ability is fine.
1x item I can live with for variety sake. In fact the more I think about it I think that is actually a great rule but it would be paired better if each class was required to be used in the tourney assuming we have enough participants, but I digress.

I will participate anyways. Do not get the wrong impression from me. Sorry if I came off wrong in my previous post.

[Barren]

Yea I changed that because it would not be fair to have let's say a team of chemists and only one can use Phoenix Down. That is dumb now that I realize it. With the  rule change I made hopefully people can feel better about it.

It's okay mudvayne. I just figured you might have had the wrong impression and I wanted to explain why the 1x item rule is good since its no jp cap. I'm not trying to come off as mean, I just wanted to make sure we were clear. Besides past is past my friend