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Remove weather effects?

Started by FFMaster, November 14, 2011, 07:35:37 am

FFMaster

Right now, there is a little issue with weather I think. Basically, Rain > Fire, Thunderstom + Lightning spells = strong and night time screws Archers. Snow is restricted to a few maps, and isn't as big an impact.

Here are the map weathers, I think, other than sunny:
http://ffhacktics.com/wiki/Ai_tourney_map_list

Should we remove the effects of weather and day/night completely? I personally see it as a random event which should be removed for balance. Fire gets bent over due to weather, while the other 2 will only receive benefits. It's why people only used Bolt 1/2/3 in a normal run after all.

If so, how do we remove it? I can't find it with my poor skills in ASM. I can slap on Any Weather for all units at worst, but that doesn't stop night time accuracy reduction for ranged attacks.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢

Pride

November 14, 2011, 07:59:20 am #1 Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 09:35:43 am by Pride
All RAM address cause I lazy and tired.
Remove night reduction on bows/crossbows at 0x00188540, you can just nop this to remove the effects.
The damage routine for weather affects on elements is at 0x00186ed0; specifically 0x00186f00 is the branch for fire reduction, 0x00186f04 is the branch for the lightning damage increase and 0x00186f84 is the branch for ice damage increase.

Here's the entire Weather Routine


Weather Affects on Elements
00186ed0: 27bdffe8 addiu r29,r29,0xffe8
00186ed4: afb00010 sw r16,0x0010(r29)
00186ed8: 3c108019 lui r16,0x8019
00186edc: 921038f7 lbu r16,0x38f7(r16) Load Abilities Element
00186ee0: afbf0014 sw r31,0x0014(r29)
00186ee4: 0c063998 jal 0x0018e660
00186ee8: 00000000 nop
00186eec: 00402821 addu r5,r2,r0
00186ef0: 24a2fffd addiu r2,r5,0xfffd
00186ef4: 2c420002 sltiu r2,r2,0x0002
00186ef8: 1040001e beq r2,r0,0x00186f74
00186efc: 32020080 andi r2,r16,0x0080
00186f00: 1040000e beq r2,r0,0x00186f3c
00186f04: 32020040 andi r2,r16,0x0040
00186f08: 3c048019 lui r4,0x8019
00186f0c: 8c842d90 lw r4,0x2d90(r4) Load Defender Current Action Data
00186f10: 00000000 nop
00186f14: 84830004 lh r3,0x0004(r4) Load HP Damage
00186f18: 00000000 nop
00186f1c: 00031040 sll r2,r3,0x01 HP Damage * 2
00186f20: 00431021 addu r2,r2,r3 HP Damage * 3
00186f24: 04410002 bgez r2,0x00186f30 Branch if Damage > 0
00186f28: 00000000 nop
00186f2c: 24420003 addiu r2,r2,0x0003 Damage + 3
00186f30: 00021083 sra r2,r2,0x02 HP Damage * 3 / 4
00186f34: a4820004 sh r2,0x0004(r4) Store New HP Damage
00186f38: 32020040 andi r2,r16,0x0040
00186f3c: 1040000e beq r2,r0,0x00186f78
00186f40: 24a2fffa addiu r2,r5,0xfffa
00186f44: 3c048019 lui r4,0x8019
00186f48: 8c842d90 lw r4,0x2d90(r4)
00186f4c: 00000000 nop
00186f50: 84830004 lh r3,0x0004(r4) Load HP Damage
00186f54: 00000000 nop
00186f58: 00031080 sll r2,r3,0x02 HP Damage * 4
00186f5c: 00431021 addu r2,r2,r3 HP Damage * 5
00186f60: 04410002 bgez r2,0x00186f6c
00186f64: 00000000 nop
00186f68: 24420003 addiu r2,r2,0x0003
00186f6c: 00021083 sra r2,r2,0x02 HP Damage * 5 /4
00186f70: a4820004 sh r2,0x0004(r4) Store new HP Damage
00186f74: 24a2fffa addiu r2,r5,0xfffa
00186f78: 2c420002 sltiu r2,r2,0x0002
00186f7c: 1040000f beq r2,r0,0x00186fbc
00186f80: 32020020 andi r2,r16,0x0020
00186f84: 1040000d beq r2,r0,0x00186fbc
00186f88: 00000000 nop
00186f8c: 3c048019 lui r4,0x8019
00186f90: 8c842d90 lw r4,0x2d90(r4)
00186f94: 00000000 nop
00186f98: 84830004 lh r3,0x0004(r4) Load HP Damage
00186f9c: 00000000 nop
00186fa0: 00031080 sll r2,r3,0x02 HP Damage * 4
00186fa4: 00431021 addu r2,r2,r3 HP Damage * 5
00186fa8: 04410002 bgez r2,0x00186fb4
00186fac: 00000000 nop
00186fb0: 24420003 addiu r2,r2,0x0003
00186fb4: 00021083 sra r2,r2,0x02 HP Damage * 5 / 4
00186fb8: a4820004 sh r2,0x0004(r4) Store new HP Damage
00186fbc: 8fbf0014 lw r31,0x0014(r29)
00186fc0: 8fb00010 lw r16,0x0010(r29)
00186fc4: 27bd0018 addiu r29,r29,0x0018
00186fc8: 03e00008 jr r31
00186fcc: 00000000 nop



Personally I think they should be removed but I wouldn't oppose them staying.
  • Modding version: PSX
Check out my ASM thread. Who doesn't like hax?

RavenOfRazgriz

FDC has a hack that modifies Ranged Attack accuracy at night, you could modify that.

Other than that, go the Any Weather approach, its simple and the weather itself is still pretty to look at.


^Pride to the rescue I guess.

I don't really have much of an issue with weather as it is, though.  It's a random element, but without random elements the game becomes boring and more deterministic.  As far as Fire/Ice/Lightning inside Black Magic go, I feel they're balanced adequately to compensate for weather.  Fire's already weak but over a large area, so a weather decrement isn't as damaging since its best use is to deny sandbagging or spread damage over a wide area, which it can still do.  (I forget the exact decrement applied, though - if it's a 50% decrement, it should be reduced to a 25% one, there's no reason for any Weather boost/decrement to be in more than 25% increments.) Ice is the cheap one MP-wise that's otherwise inferior in every way to Bolt, so essentially being weather-immune.  Bolt is the expensive and highly damaging one, so being most likely to gain bonus damage from weather seems fine since it ensures it has an distinct advantage over Ice in addition to a slightly higher Y value.

Ability-wise, I think the only skills that get their choice truly skewed by Weather are Shiva/Ifrit/Ramuh and Katon/Raiton, since they're mirrored skills, unlike Black Magic.  (This is also why I dislike ability parity where you have like 3 skills that are exactly the same sans Element.)  I don't see this as a big deal, though, since Fire is also paired onto Black Costume, which is the best of the dual-Element absorbing Clothes, so you still have reason to take things like Katon despite it technically being nothing but inferior to Raiton and Suiton.  (That reason being self-healing, of course.)

There's weapons somewhat... but as it is, proc-based ones already have Fire at the highest WP and Bolt at the lowest WP, and people using Fire weapons again gain the benefit of having some of the best absorption gear with exclusion to Mace of Zeus to compensate for a Weather weakness.  

Tl;dr I don't think Weather (Rain/Snow) is a problem.

I wouldn't mind removing the accuracy decrement on Nighttime battles, though - there's nothing like what I described above for the units affected by this since it affects Attack accuracy.  It's a flat out "fuck you" with no risk/reward like above.


So, keep the Weather, remove the Night Time Accuracy Loss, personally.

Celdia

Quote from: Pride on November 14, 2011, 07:59:20 am
Personally I think they should be removed but I wouldn't oppose them staying.
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Celdia#0

Barren

November 14, 2011, 08:27:39 am #4 Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 08:28:47 am by Barren
It really doesn't matter to me if the weather effects stays or goes. but please remove raining in caves, makes the maps look weird  :?
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

formerdeathcorps

I see no reason to delete weather, especially given how we balanced fire/ice/lightning (outside of ninjitsu but that's more reason to make ninjitsu dark/wind/water to begin with).

The night penalty vs. bows and crossbows isn't as fair a penalty since longbows suck while guns and harps are excluded.  Of course, it wouldn't be hard to fix that.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

FFMaster

I don't know how to turn off the raining inside caves.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Are weather effects hardcoded to specific battlefields?  This belongs in the wiki.