Final Fantasy Hacktics

Arbalist, the Dual Weilding Crossbowmen

August 22nd 2010

LastingDawn Edit

This is the Arbalist class, their skills are focused on pure damage and destruction, it's power is purely physical with a purpose of a Glass Cannon, they have massive power with their two crossbows, and are the only class able to dual wield. they inflict no statuses with their skills but can remove two distinctly damaging statuses from the opponent.

Philsov's update to the skillset are appreciated, but realistically we might not be able to have 7 or more skills for this class.

Arbalist Skills

Iconics
Elemental Shot - strong charged ability with various elements attached to it.
 (??????) -
(Riskbreaker) - Weapon damage with a proc of itself (which can proc itself, which can proc itself, etc)


Ramza
??? - 6 range 0 vert tol linear attack dealing PA-based damage
Autocrossbow - Uses old repeating fist formula to pelt the enemy with a deluge of bolts, 3 range single target
Execute - Uses Death formula to deal 21% dark damage to critical targets.  Weapon range, single target.  
Desperation - self only, critical-only.  Adds haste and innocent at 100%
????
????

Rad
??? - 4 range 0 vert tol 3-way attack dealing PA-based damage
Point Blank - 1 range 0 vert tol - PA+WP+X attack.  High damage.
?Salted Wound? - Damage dealt = damage taken thus far (aka climhazzard) (trumps Execute, I know;  but this job is off the Red Mage radar and needs a perk imo)
Second Wind - self-only, critical-only.  Adds Berserk and Regen at 100%.
????
????[/quote]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

charge ftw!!

anyway, some ability ideas
Auto-crossbow - Hits an area in range with an effect radius of 1
Pulse Ammo(?) - Hits all enemies in a straight line for 5 panels (Pretty much Holy Explosion, a way to deal damage to enemies surrounding the "Assassin")
Over Strung - Fires both Crossbows simultaneously, knocking the enemy back
Holy Bolt - Bolt dipped in Holy Water seals Evil Spirits (Pretty much Seal Evil)
Grapple - Shoots a grappling hook through the enemy, stopping complex movements (Add : Addle)

ok i have to drive to school, maybe more ideas later. go forth and criticize!!!

I think an auto-crossbow ability would be more fun if it used the repeating fist effect, and dealt unevadable, albeit random, damage in a large AoE (like a physical version of the Blow Leaves spell we've seen in the demo vids)

Assassinate- Deals damage and chance to inflict Dead.

Toxic Arrows- Deals damage and inflicts Poison.

Hallucinogen- Deals damage and Inflicts Confuse/Berserk

Ready, Aim, Kill- Deals massive damage at high accuracy. Really high mana cost and CT (fast) skill.

Silent Arrow- Deals damage and adds Silence/Sleep

Time Shot- Deals damage and adds Slow/Stop

Machine Gun- Deals high random damage in an area.

a lot of status because the Assassin is both a disabler and a killer.

boomkick did you even read my post

dont give them status

or they will be way too similar to Mercenaries Archers

their skills have to be unique

maybe even give them a charged double shot (4 arrows on same panel, mp cost, long CT, evadeable, etc etc)

or AOE moves

this job is supposed to be alot more in your face than archer

but no status


Overstrung is pretty good

Maybe they could have straight line skills with no vertical tolerance, so they have to look for good opportunities rather than mowing everything down at will. They could have a linear self-destruct, a strong attack that damages MP and a dark-based % of HP attack. Probably charged.

no vert tol is not a bad idea for a skill

last I check arrows do not fly over obstacles and come back down to keep flying at the previous height

but you cant make the entire skillset like that, they dont get status, so it's gonna get redundant real quick

also, "mowing everything down at will" is a huge assumption for a job that doesn't even exist yet

sit down and observe how things unfold before you call in the broken card

As always a great idea, Voldemort! This is a great way to put in the double crossbow and Only the double crossbow, making the... um... there must be a better name than Assassin for this... we'll figure that out eventually. I like the thought of Overstrung as well as a different sort of archer... and I am glad you put the Double Crossbow thought from 1.3 and applied it to here.  Auto Crossbow is a bit of an odd skill, but I have to admit, it would make sense...  and Skip Sandwich's thought on the matter are perfect! Repeating Fist is an interesting formula, and put on an AoE of 1 Effect Range even more so!

Now Over Strung, that would technically knock the enemy back twice, which is wonderfully unique!

Pulse Ammo, is too close to Holy Explosion for comfort to be honest Holy Bolt and Grapple are statuses (which we've already said wouldn't apply to  "Assassins".

Voldemort, Double Shot, which shoots four is quite a peculiar thought, especially if it uses CT, of course it would need to be a pretty long CT for such, hehe.

As for your suggestions Asmo, Archer already has, oddly enough... everything you mentioned, Magic Disperse, Lifeforce Shot, except that Dark attack! I really like that thought, In which I'll probably use for this class. So, it seems this class will be the CT users of the physical classes? An interesting idea...

As always, great ideas everyone!

hmm still in need of more abilities methinks, i'm not sure how the CT or possible MP cost will work (if any) for these but here are some ideas...

Piercing Bolt  - Normal attack that can pass through trees/rocks/etc. to attack under cover (doesn't work for enemy units too high to reach)

Point Blank - Powerful attack with crossbow but has Range : 1

Depressant Bolt - Normal attack damage + Despair/Dispel

Also, is it possible for an attack like "Rapid Fire" to work where it deals small damage but gives the you an extra 20 CT at the end of your turn (like if you had waited)??

Shotgun- Deals increased damage but only has a range of 1 panel.

Charge Bow- Increases Self PA by 1 per use.

Shaker Shot- Deals damage and stops Charging/Performing.

Shadow Hide- Adds Transparent.

Longshot- Deals massive damage at a VERY long range, CT skill.

Elemental Shot- Deals a lot of damage, but has Fire, Ice, Lightning, Water, and Darkness elements. So it is useless against people with immunities or absorb to it.

Arrow Shield- Deals damage by shooting arrows around him.

The Double shot can have built in inaccuracy, right? Like Gear Breaking skills do?

Is there a PA+X% hit formula?

the function of the skill can be "extra attacks at lower accuracy"

combined with evadeable and some CT or MP cost it would be fine

^ Yes, there is.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"As always a great idea, Voldemort! This is a great way to put in the double crossbow and Only the double crossbow, making the... um... there must be a better name than Assassin for this... we'll figure that out eventually.

You might as well call them "Snipers" if they're basically the "upgrade" to Archer when it comes to distance classes and the only other class (?) that can use Crossbows innately on top of being able to dual-wield crossbows which no other class can do.

sniper could work

except they will have less range than an archer with a longbow

and I'm not sure how much "sniping" they should be doing


they are supposed to be glass cannons

2 big weapons

but die easy

and by easy  I mean, 75 HPM cloth wearer, cant use shields, not much C EV

no defensive skills


the high tier, specialized jobs should have some drawbacks

Despite what little I know about actual snipers, I think the point of sniping is more staying hidden rather than distance.

However, I'm assuming that this class will have some means of making themselves Transparent, which may not work out if we can't figure out how to make the AI take advantage of that status (if LastingDawn is concerned about that).

This is starting to sound like a Sniper. lol
Maybe the class should be called Sniper.

Anyway.

Quick Shot: Fires Quickly To Hit A Target But Does Very Low Damage. (High % Hit Rate/Low Damage)

no

no transparent for them dude

they dont get statuses

or defensive abilities

that's why I said I don't know how much "Sniping" this job is going to be doing

they are cannons

start thinking of them as front line Machine Gunners instead of long distance stealthy Sniper Assassin types

How about "Ace" for this class? The name permeates with the fact that they are original, cool, and fragile albeit powerful

Quote from: "Voldemort7"no

no transparent for them dude

they dont get statuses

or defensive abilities

Ah yes. How quickly I forget.

Well, if the we could freely make it so certain skills were could only be used with weapons that aren't typed as "Swords", then I would suggest calling them "Machinists" or even just "Engineers" since Crossbows are machines; it would also be somewhat reminscient of Edgar, especially since we're already using his Auto-Crossbow apparently.

That said, should all the techniques that we give them be Crossbow-specific (even if we can't make them Crossbow-only at the moment)?

Unfortunately, that's not possible, a true shame though... Unless we give this class the breaks, but that would leave the Knight up the creek without a paddle.

Well lets just up their stats then. My suggestions

If they don't get the benefit of status they should get the benefit of speed, or move/jump?

They should have high HP because they are using crossbows and are at a disadvantage from ranged archers and casters. They need their own advantage also.

Upping their speed, so they move faster then others.
Upping their move and jump so they can overcome ranged units.
Upping their HP would let them be able to survive at least a few attacks because they are using crossbows, but not insanely high. They still need to be squishy.

But if you want them to have extremely high PA, then they should be named Cannon or something. Because cannons are usually slow and easy kills, they get strength.

i believe their advantage is their high PA and ability to dual wield ranged weapons (crossbows) and that, IMO, is a large advantage

i bump my suggestion that this class be named "Ace"

EDIT: look everyone i beat Voldemort to the punch at describing his own vision

thisjob will be strong enough in offense

it shouldn't be as fast as an archer

and no high HP

just because they can't use STATUS doesn't mean they need extra stats

this job's strength is the double ranged attack, the skillset, and that's it

it's up side is power

not speed or HP or anything else

Shit I didn't even bother to check the archer's skillset.

Also Voldemort, I didn't presume anything. There are too many classes than CAN mow down everything at will and that's why I said it. Stop finding stupid trivial shit to make snarky comments about.

hey now. stop that.

Honestly now, wouldn't the Charge skillset be pretty much perfect for this class?

You may be looking for something that is somehow new and exciting, but I'm seeing ideas bouncing around here about a physical class with charge times whose strength is tied directly to their double ranged attack, and Charge compliments exactly those things.  CT would probably need to be reduced to buff the skillset some, but Charge would actually be somewhat useful if you're packing a double attack every turn.

Also, how about "Arbalist?"

wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbalist_(crossbowman)

Ace... why ace?

I'm sure there's a better name for a ranged powerhouse

Like Cannon .

Yeah, Ace is kinda fighter pilot-ish.  

A name is hard to come by for this, because there's just no real-world precedent for someone who dual wields crossbows.  Too impractical to do without some kind of repeating mechanism, which I'm sure these guys have, of course.

Arbalist literally means crossbowman.
Cannon sounds badass.
Ballista is a name SentinalBlade's using for one of his ranged classes, and references heavy medieval artillery, which fits quite well here.
Ace or Elite or something of that nature works well with the idea that this is a high tier physical class.
Crossbowperson would be wonderfully politically correct, I suppose.
Penetrator could be vaguely erotic.
Impaler, Marauder, Marksman, Raider, I dunno I dunno!

Ballista's my personal favorite of those.  All a ballista is is one giant freaking crossbow that up and impales castle walls and people who get in its way.  All offense, and not much in the way of defense.  But I'm stealing SentinalBlade's intellectual property here, so that makes me a very bad person and I'm so so sorry don't sue me!

Arbalist

could work

I like ballista. And yes Ace is kinda fighter pilot-ish, but aren't fighter pilots ranged powerhouses?? o_O

Ace sounds like some spoiled american raised in okinawa son of a general fighter pilot brat that no one likes

please don't name it Ace

I second that, don't name it Ace. It sounds too much like an assassin or stealthy fighter. Go with Ballista or something since that makes some sense, considering he is a arrow powerhouse.

what about Arbalist?

a Ballista is a huge crossbow-like siege engine

Arbalist, while it can also be used for a seige engine, is the name of someone who uses crossbows

I don't know a lot of people who may know on first sight what Arbalist means, but it could work.

I don't see the problem with people not knowing the exact definition of the word

Sometimes I don't know what some names in video games mean.. I can just look it up

that's not the game's problem

Dude, we're building the vocabulary of the people!  This is an important thing!

Arbalist sounds like artist. not scary.

Let them prove themselves in battle then.

I mean, Priest doesn't exactly sound scary until they Holy you (or they're Catholic and you're a little boy...). Same with Dancer Nameless Dancing you into a Frog or Geomancer (geomancy exists in real life fyi) strangling you to death with Hell Ivy.

Very few of the classes sound intimidating, but the only one that fails to kick your ass is Bard, which is meant to be the ultimate support class anyway.

Speaking of "anyway", I agree with Dormin Jake on both grounds: they should be named Arbalist and they should use Charge (at least some of them, fuck +10 and +20).

Only problem with the latter is that Charge techniques can't mixed be with non-Charge techniques, right?

Arbalist sounds most appropriate, but Charge is rather... boring, and can't be mixed with any other skills, therefore making it 1.0's Archers with double crossbows and a bit less speed, now to me, that doesn't sound too interesting. But we can still mix their skills up relatively well, there's quite a few skill slots let go for use now.

An in your face ranged class NEEDS a move called

Point Blank - Extreme damage with a range of 1 (possibly 2) and 0 height tolerance.

Quote from: "gasm"An in your face ranged class NEEDS a move called

Point Blank - Extreme damage with a range of 1 (possibly 2) and 0 height tolerance.

good name and idea

hehe, just noticed dwib mentioned it on page 1.

true, I see it

o well, good idea nonethelessSSsS~!!1~`1111

Update on the first page, we still need three more skills for this class, so please keep that in mind, just also remember that they cannot inflict Status, that is the Archer's job anyhow.

Multi-Arrow- 1 AOE effect targeted weapon damage. High Mp cost and charge-time.

Sky Arrow Rain- 2 AOE effect targeted less than weapon damage. MP cost and charge-time.

Holy Arrow- Non-elemental arrow that only effects undead. Does a lot of damage. Mp cost, but no ct.

Ballistae - 1 powerful shot medium mp cost and decent accuracy chance at causing dead.


EDIT: no charge time.

Magic Missile- Choco Ball animation, deals slightly better then normal weapon damage and can shoot through/around obstacles, low mp cost.

Magic Missile? D&D reference much

I don't know if this kind of move is even possible, but how about-

*flashynamehere*-Breaks both crossbows equipped, deals extreme damage. weapon range.

EDIT: Seems part of the post got cut out.

Seeing as this class is, like Voldemort said, a "glass cannon", I thought a move similar to the bomb's explosion would fit-an ultimate unleashing of the class' power in a desperate situation.

Currently the only way to do what you said would be to do the following AFAIK:

• Use Hellcry Punch's slot.
• Change Hellcry Punch so that it affects the Arbalist as well the target, meaning that it would probably have to be like Gambler's newly proposed Coin Toss move: Range: 0, Effect Area: 1, Linear Attack.
• ???
• Die horribly since the Arbalist is a glass cannon and would be getting by the attack as well.

On top of that, I'm pretty sure only one Crossbow would be broken since Hellcry Punch...doesn't double fire? (I'm pretty sure it doesn't, then again, I rarely use Mighty Sword skills.)

Still, a good idea of sorts.

@ The Damned you can make it double fire  with the ranged weapon flag

the skill would require some rebalancing, and it'd be iffy, because the Arbalist might not survive the 1st "Cross bow broken hit"

and step #3 is impossible atm

 

Quote from: "Voldemort7"and step #3 is impossible atm

 :P

More seriously, won't Ranged Weapon make it not hit the Arbalist at all, though? I'm pretty sure it won't since I couldn't (and still can't) get a certain technique of mine to hit an area of Effect 1 when I was using bow weapons with Range Weapon. (I still can't get it to work without that, though, so maybe it's goddamned formula.)

Even if the ability does extreme EXTREME X-TREME damage, it doesn't really seem worth it if the Arbalist is also taking the same amount of damage (and glass cannon = dead) AND breaking both weapons.

The sacrifice just seems excessive.  Like "I'm going to burn down my house while my family and I are still in it, but by Lunos this burglar is not going to get out alive."

Okay so maybe that analogy is itself excessive, but my point still stands.  There's no flavorful reason for the Arbalist to be taking damage here anyway, except that the formula dictates it.

Boom Headshot

Low change of hitting but when it hits it will cause death.

Seems like the first 5 skills are more than enough offensive attacks for most situations, so I'll throw out a few offensive support abilities.  All target only Arbalist itself:

Frenzy - Gives Berserk and Haste.  Lose 50% life (if that's not possible: Add: Poison, take off Haste).  30MP, No CT.

Charge Up - Gather Power effect + Add Slow.  Medium CT, same as charge + 5.  No MP.

Also, just for the heck of it

Last Shot - Self Destruct, only 1 target.  Evadeable.  20 MP, No CT.

Self Destruct is over done by this point, it being in the Archer and Blue Mage's skillset, also if he only has four or five moves, then so be it.   They aren't supposed to  have any status, though Frenzy is a very nice idea though.

god, frenzy would be so strong on a unit like this

How about instead of HP damage or poison, it would be Add: Death Sentence?  Cuts right to the chase.  But again if you don't want any status at all then just ignore this.

Quote from: "Voldemort7"the skill would require some rebalancing, and it'd be iffy, because the Arbalist might not survive the 1st "Cross bow broken hit"

and step #3 is impossible atm

 

I assumed he meant break the wielder's crossbows and do heavy damage to the target.

Not that it really matters if it's impossible

Maybe a skill that deals heavy damage and causes death sentence on the caster? would that be possible. Wouldn't really see the point for it though. (didn't see the post above sorry.)

An attack with more range and maybe a 100% hit rate that inflicts blind after use? Damn eye strain...

as for the whole "rapid fire" thing, why not just have it like a ranged blade flurry?

Arbalist needs atleast 1 more skill

any ideas?

What if you had a skill that was so powerful, that it would destroy the crossbow you were using?

Wrath of the Arbalist
Shatters the Arbalist xbow(s), deals high damage with a very low chance of death.

What I was thinking was, that either it would be similar to Draw Out or it could have a 100% chance of casting Weapon Break on the Caster. That way, the higher your PA/WP, the more likely it would break your weapon.

no, something else

(reason: impossible to make 100% break user weapon without ASM right now, attack would have to be so powerful on borderline broken to make up for the unit's weapon being broken)

no

Somebody already suggest an HP Slicer effect? Or maybe a Dark Knight/Worker 8-like skill.

Got it! How about a Climhazzard-esque skill?

hmm

damage based on damage sustained by the target?

good idea

but might conflict with all it's other damage skills

Would making it inaccurate help?

sure

but it still conflicts with an otherwise 100% damage based skillset

Arrgh. I bite my thumb at it.

My only other suggestions are an Accumulate-type skill, an attack based on Reverse Faith Machanic of Malak's Hell Skill, an attack that poaches monsters, or an attack that does more damage to the undead. S'all I got.

Stop Break-
100% 1 Panel AOE auto-target himself (hit himself too) Stop/Petrify.

Arbalists Desperation

The Arbalist summons a last, desperate burst of energy in an attempt to finish off a wounded target (50% or below)

Has a chance to backfire and deal the same damage to the Arbalist. Can only be used at below 25% HP.

Point Blank - range = 1, high damage
Exeter - powerful, heavy bolt's recoil damages arbalist as well, but travels through walls etc., high charge time

How about a Difference like attack? Or an attack that deals MP damage?

Quote from: "Dokurider"How about a Difference like attack? Or an attack that deals MP damage?

from what i've gathered, attacks with a set amount of damage (climhazzard, difference, etc.) are too distracting from the rest of his damage based skills. i think that's what arch was saying.

yeah... he has tons of ways to deal damage with current skills

ANOTHER damage skill would become redundant

we need something ELSER!!!!!

So no buff or Debuffs, huh? I was thinking an 1.3 accumulate type set-up with lower speed? Could even give it +2 PA. A slower gather power. I think it would give the arbalist something to do if they are out of range.

no + stats

I don't think LD is having + stat stuff in here

hmmm

I wish there was a way to make a "Boost" ability like FFTA

that would be nice

No stat raising, no status changes, no damage skills. Perhaps something passive then? Or is it an active battle skill you're after?

Quote from: "tithin"No stat raising, no status changes, no damage skills. Perhaps something passive then? Or is it an active battle skill you're after?

active battle skill

status COULD be OK

as long as it's not a magical status

(and one of his shots kills defending / charging status currently anyway, so that's out)

I'm gonna get to work on more skills for him soon though

Passion of the Arbalist

The Arbalist serenades a member of the opposite sex, wooing them to the parties side for only one round, due to the fact that the Arbalist never called back the next day. 100% chance.

Ok, it's a thief skill, but it's 100% chance to hit, and it has the drop off of only working on one gender, for one round. This way if you wanted to keep that person on your side, you'd essentially be taking the Arbalist out of the fight to keep them on Charm lockdown.

Arbalist is just a soldier trained in the use of killing using crossbows only

I don't think they are the charmer type at all

Barbed Arrow

The Arbalist fires a barbed arrow / bolt that pins the enemy to the ground, and applies a non elemental bleeding DoT. This shot does a small amount of entry damage.

Last Charge
Must be critical, inflicts quick and berserk on Arbalist

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Last Charge
Must be critical, inflicts quick and berserk on Arbalist

WINNER

WINNER

WINNER


however...

couldn't he just keep quicking self in order to get infinite turns and move?

would be too broken / abuseable

but the idea is solid

it's like the "SPELL X ONLY WORKS WHEN TARGET HAS Y STATUS"

but on caster

good good

Adds berserk so the AI would charge the enemy and someones face off. Adding haste would make it better if you can line up the CTs

A problem with adding berserk to rangers is that their IQ drops.

then Self What?

I was thinking in addition to berserk Dont Move should be added.

What? No. This skill's limitation is that you have to be critical to activate it.

Self Zerk + something else

should be good enough

Quote from: "Voldemort"What? No. This skill's limitation is that you have to be critical to activate it.

Self Zerk + something else

should be good enough

Gotta agree with this, it already has its downturns. I'd personally switch quick for haste / regen, but thats my own take on the skill.

This is how I see the skill.

MUST BE CRITICAL: Unit almost dead so drawback
QUICK: Unit goes before chance to heal
BERSERK: Unit charges TOWARDS ENEMIES which means after he blows up a face, enemies swarm and kill him
Optional haste rewards you for timing the skill correctly but haste + regen instead of haste would break the skill. Also high mp cost would be good as Arbalist = low mp

i think just having berserk & quick is enough. no haste/whatever and DEFINITELY not regen. this skill should make him fuck shit up and then die. wasn't he once called a "glass cannon" after all?

I didn't mean haste / regen in addition to quick, I meant perhaps as an alternative?

...Er...there are several problems with the idea being supported on this entire page. Not that it's a bad idea, but right now, without Razele doing some (massive) formula hacking, there's no way such a technique can exist:

• There's only one formula in the game that adds Quick--well, technically two since apparently Critical Quick isn't affected by what you do to the Time Magic spell Quick as Lasting Dawn has told me. This formula doesn't take any status on it AND is magical. (Quick isn't technically a status.)
• Similarly, since Quick isn't technically a status, you can't pair it with Berserk in the Inflict Status Code List.
• Speaking of pairing statuses, you also can't remove a status and then add one right after it. If you could, then there would be evil, evil things that I would do.

So...yeah.

Anyway, while thinking about this (I just saw this ten minutes after getting home from work) request, I did think of an idea that relates to status and affecting the caster:


Clear Eyes (is Awesome?): "The Arbalist, being a ranged fighter, always keeps a small bottle of medical liquid with which to cure and even prevent blindness." Uses formula 35, where X is 255 and Y is something reasonable like 10 >=, an Inflict Status Code that Cancels Blindness, and affects only the caster.


This is the only thing that I can think of that would be useful for Arbalist alongside all melee classes without being overpowered for other melee classes like Berserk plus something else is.

(Besides, I believe one of the Reliquian's abilities already does Berserk plus other things--it's the only Reliquian ability I have an issue with to be truthful.)

Haste, berserk, regen and zombie then?

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Haste, berserk, regen and zombie then?

Good idea, but zombie is curable.

It is possible to create a new zombie status that is uncleansable though, correct?

Don't think a skill to cure it is in yet but that would help

EDIT: Happy lunar new year, 12:04 in a rainy/hailing south cali

Quote from: "The Damned"Clear Eyes (is Awesome?): "The Arbalist, being a ranged fighter, always keeps a small bottle of medical liquid with which to cure and even prevent blindness." Uses formula 35, where X is 255 and Y is something reasonable like 10 >=, an Inflict Status Code that Cancels Blindness, and affects only the caster.


This is the only thing that I can think of that would be useful for Arbalist alongside all melee classes without being overpowered for other melee classes like Berserk plus something else is.

Curing Blindness is useless in most cases. That skill would never see use, ever.

You can simply take the Quick + Zerk idea and turn it into Haste + Quick.

A Berserked unit, while it does do more damage, is no longer under the player's control and takes more damage.

You seem to be forgetting these two things when you call berserk "broken for other physical jobs".

These two drawbacks will be even more punishing in this patch, where you only control 2-3 people in most battles. Losing control of a single unit won't always be worth the damage bonus / penalty from zerk.

Berserk can be useful, but it's not the omgwowend everything skill.

Zerk + something else on crit only should be fine. Useful on Arbalist because of their Range and Double Attacks, not so useful on other jobs who lack these attributes.

Quote from: "Voldemort"What? No. This skill's limitation is that you have to be critical to activate it.

Self Zerk + something else

should be good enough

What I was trying to tell you yesterday was that it's not really a nerf as it is for their own good. Rangers have a tendency to get stuck behind obstacles, trying to fire through it and wasting turns. It's not a problem with Archers, as they can fire over stuff, but for gunners and crossbow wielders, it's a problem. If they setup with Don't Move, they can't wander all over the map, and can't get stuck behind stuff.

Then again, I guess it'll just be a "use at your own risk kinda thing.

Quote from: "Voldemort"Curing Blindness is useless in most cases. That skill would never see use, ever.

True, curing Blindness is normally useless because you have Concentrate to auto-counter it and a lot of things don't really have (considerable) evasion to be doubled.

That said, there's no Concentrate in this patch, so perhaps it's not as useless as you think.

I must admit that I am rather unsure of how Berserked units with Bows act, so that's part of the reason why I was hestiant. With regards to Berserk being "broken", I was more trying to communicate (late at night) that Berserk plus something like Haste or Regen would generally be useful for other melee classes because they have more HP. From the constant description of "glass cannon", it seems like Arbalist will have the lowest HP of all (melee) classes to compensate for the fact that only they have Two Swords.

So, yeah, Berserk is less useful for to them than other melee classes due to the reasons you said, though again I can't really remain how Archers act when Berserked. (I'm pretty sure they go towards you and use closest range and don't back away from you and use the max range; this seems pretty bad for glass cannons with Crossbows since they would might go towards the opponent and get destroyed since Crossbows can technically hit an opponent from 1 space away unlike Longbows. I should probably test this with that Berserker class I have....)

Anyway, I don't have a problem with Berserk + whatever; I just don't think that it really fits for the Arbalist on top of being in competition with one of Reliquian's better techniques.

(Also, Berserk units don't automatically take more damage AFAIK. The only statuses that cause more damage are Frog and Chicken, unless you're talking about the Fury thing that Lasting Dawn had planned on implementing.)


P.S. Nice pun.

And Sleep, don't forget sleep.

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Haste, berserk, regen and zombie then?

do zombied characters take damage from regen? if so...
i like this A LOT.
A LOOTTTTT

Except Zombie makes no sense for this job

they have no real magical powers

Haste + Zerk can pass on a physical class, they can just get really pissed off

Zombie, not so much

Quote from: "dwib"

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Haste, berserk, regen and zombie then?

do zombied characters take damage from regen? if so...
i like this A LOT.
A LOOTTTTT

It's a heal, therefore damage. Perhaps alter the flavour text a bit?

The Arbalist injects themself with a deadly poison, that increases his reaction speeds, but guarantees his demise within three rounds.

Add haste, and death sentence.

I would like that if Death Sentence didn't currently make the computer ignore you. Now that I think about, considering what Razele said earlier, it's probably really difficult to fix the computer doing that for Death Sentence and Confusion.

Anyway, Regen doesn't stack with Zombie. Seriously. Zombie will just cancel Regen automatically IIRC.

Noooooo

What are you despairing over, Lord Vader?

what about .. um...

only useable when critical,  restores 100% of MP? (their skills cost MP... I think all of Mercenaries skills cost MP)

Focus?

The MP filling skill is like a not broken MP restore, because you need to cover the arbalist until his next turn.

Did the mime called the stone gunners arch?

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Did the mime called the stone gunners arch?

what?

Quote from: "Voldemort"what about .. um...

only useable when critical,  restores 100% of MP? (their skills cost MP... I think all of Mercenaries skills cost MP)

Focus?

The three set-up formulas that Skip Sandwich discovered all heal HP only, so there's no way to restrict that ability to just being Critical. Similarly, the only formulas that restore MP don't take status. So no go again I'm afraid.

That said, if we could find a way to restrict it, then I would like that over the Berserk + Haste "Get Pissed!" ability.

Quote from: "The Damned"I would like that if Death Sentence didn't currently make the computer ignore you. Now that I think about, considering what Razele said earlier, it's probably really difficult to fix the computer doing that for Death Sentence and Confusion.

Anyway, Regen doesn't stack with Zombie. Seriously. Zombie will just cancel Regen automatically IIRC.

Aren't both of those fixable with an ASM hack?

Quote from: "tithin"Aren't both of those fixable with an ASM hack?

...You apparently failed to realize that a)I have no idea if they are actually ASM "fixable" or not and that b)that's what the sentence is saying.

Why would I say it might be a problem if I already knew we could just "fix it"?

Besides, those aren't actually "broken" like other stuff we've been fixing with ASM, such as Wall or Oil or Innate Reactions. The "problem" with those is that both things we would want to "fix" in this case are key aspects of the status and, in the case of the former, deal with the likely very complicated issue of AI priority.

Quote from: "Voldemort"Except Zombie makes no sense for this job

they have no real magical powers

Haste + Zerk can pass on a physical class, they can just get really pissed off

Zombie, not so much

well maybe poison instead of zombie and regen. i just liked that whole idea of it making him powerful and killing him.
MP recovery at critical is also good

Quote from: "The Damned"

Quote from: "tithin"Aren't both of those fixable with an ASM hack?

if they are actually ASM fixable

changing a status removal formula to MP heal instead of HP heal should be rather simple, if LD wants to use the idea

I don't want to hear "no, sorry" comments from you anymore

suggest useful ideas, not reasons why existing useful ones won't work, especially since you just said you have no idea what is and isn't editable via ASM (fyi: alot is)

We need LD to comment and see what he will use soon, or this may never end...

Quote from: "Voldemort"suggest useful ideas, not reasons why existing useful ones won't work, especially since you just said you have no idea what is and isn't editable via ASM (fyi: alot is)

It's rather difficult to suggest "useful ideas" between the current ever-changing restrictions of what you want this final attack do, Lasting Dawn not posting and all of us just posting one or two sentences on top of the fact that it's you (and Lasting Dawn) who ultimately decide what's "useful".

I mean, I obviously wouldn't have bothered suggesting the cure blindness ability if I didn't think that it might be useful without Concentrate in the game.

I'm sorry if you see my naysaying as nonproductive, but I would just rather go with what's feasible right now if possible rather than using the possibly using up the limited space we have unneccessarily. It's been why I've been trying to explain why such ideas won't work when I naysay, even if I do think that they would work.

(For the record, the real reason I disagreed with the Death Sentence one is because LastingDawn himself said that he wanted only one class to have Death Sentence.)

EDIT: Split in half.

Beelzubub's Arrow:
Nearing his death, the Arbalist asks the devil to allow him to go out with a bang. Dark Damage attack, straight line, 4 range, must be in critical, inflicts zombie, deals HEAVY damage, costs and sh*tload of mana, hits the arbalist too

Last Frenzy-

Shoots arrows in rapid fashion to an AOE. The skill is set up so that it does AOE damage to a target area, but the Arbalist will always be in the targeted area so he takes damage and dies from it (is it possible to make this usable when critical only?).

Um you guys know that arbalists are crossbowman right , so they don't fire arrows in one place they fire bolts. On a second glance try to avoid rapid fire skills though they make look cool a short bow is for rapid fire not a longbow or crossbow.

The_Damned your posts are too long!

Cure Blindness is still useless even without Concentrate around. I think you need to go and witness, in-game, exactly how small the impact of Blindness is on on hit %.

Anyway, I will keep posting ideas on this when I get back from class

Quote from: "Voldemort"The_Damned your posts are too long!

I already said that I know how much Cure Blindness would suck by the vanilla or even 1.3 gameplay mechanics. I was trying to go by what little I know of LastingDawn's overall choices so far, i.e. no Concentrate, little Death Sentence, etc.

Anyway, I split that initially post in half and the rest of this post will be what was originally in the one you complained about:

"***

Now, as for possibly useful ideas, I vaguely remember you (or someone else, it's been like two months since I remember hearing this) could get the abilities of the Arbalist to fire twice regardless of the formula used as along as Weapon Strike was marked off, is this correct?

If so, then perhaps you could make like a "Spacing" ability that uses the Throw Stone/Dash formula for knockback except that it would hit twice.

Wait...hmmm...I forget. Didn't you do such an ability already? It's been a while since I've watched the videos?

Hmmm...well, beyond that one, it becomes rather difficult to think of a technique would a)use non-magical formula, b)preferably not inflict or cancel status on others and c)possibly also fire twice.

The only thing that I could think of right now would be use Aspel/Spell Absorb's formula so that an Arbalist could get back a decent amount of MP (especially since I remember Riskbreaker being [understandably] very expensive). Problem with that one is that formula is currently both Faith-based and MA-based.

Hmmm...not much else I can think off the top of my head."

Quote from: "Voldemort"The Damned your posts are too long!

Agreed... You post like Bill Clinton. You say a lot without really saying anything.

QuoteHow can you talk so much, yet say so little?

Quote from: "dwib"Agreed... You post like Bill Clinton.

That has to be the most retarded analogy I've ever heard, which is saying a lot for several reasons.

Now I had the mental image of Bill Clinton posting spam and jumping into flamewars on some forum, which then turned into the mental image of all the world leaders conducting buisiness on an internet forum, and it'd be all drama and flamewars and pointless spam.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"Now I had the mental image of Bill Clinton posting spam and jumping into flamewars on some forum, which then turned into the mental image of all the world leaders conducting buisiness on an internet forum, and it'd be all drama and flamewars and pointless spam.

President Obama would be doing this, but the Secret Service took away his BlackBerry.  

For my *ahem* Quick + Berserk Idea, can't you just hack the quick spell for instant cast, 100%, must be critical, and add berserk + self cast?

QuoteFor my *ahem* Quick + Berserk Idea, can't you just hack the quick spell for instant cast, 100%, must be critical, and add berserk + self cast?

Wasn't that the basic idea?

So, what's going on now with this topic? Are you looking for any more ideas for skills? Because I think we've tapped the idea well pretty dry.

Alright, alright... everyone, am I the only one who like's The Damned's Cure Blindness ability? It does actually have quite a bit of use (with a basic Esuna so far away... and not to mention highly expensive) It's not Incredible, but it's not Useless, Blind isn't a very uncommon status in Mercenaries (at least every Archer you run into will have it, compared to... Eye Gouge and... Blind). So I think for just the quite interesting idea of an Arbalist carrying around Eyedrops, it's a good idea.

NOW As has been said many times by this point Quick + X doesn't go. Quick is purely on its own. As it doesn't accept other Status, personally I don't mind that there are only Six (seven including the Secret Skill) skills for Arbalist, Last Stand is... well that's going to be a reaction so this doesn't quite clash with that. My only worry is people stacking the Critical status from the Cantor's and using whatever ability it is from such. As has been said, they are Glass Cannons. A Berserked unit that is low on HP is Dead, no two ways around that. On the other hand, we can use let's see... Berserk, Transparent, Haste (to protect him from Physical Damage). It shows a touch of desperation, as well as a loss of control combined with the overall survivalist character of the Arbalist.

Let's see...

Dire Straits: In a fit of desperation, the Arbalist slinks into the shadows to attack the next unwary foe that should pass him. Must be Critical: Add Transparent, Haste, Berserk

(Transparent in Mercenaries will ignore Physical, but not Magical Damage)

Digging the sexy ranger look.

Robin Hood/Peter Pan colors.

Quote(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp347/Asmoad/th_arbarbarb.png)

I like this simple one.
Good job Asmo X.

^ yeah. Agreed.
I'll work on the female gambler sprite first, so..
someone please work on it.

Lasting_Dawn the methods I used to create the main Arbalist's skills proved to have massive bugs in 13029 (Remember Bull's Eye, Wild Blow??)

You can still make them work, but you have to be very careful about the formulas you pick

if they cause problems (you should test targeting and re-targeting with those skills to make sure) let me know and I'll fix them

Test the following whenever you get time

1) Arbalist Skillset Attacks on a job that is able to equip guns, flails, and axes. Try targeting, canceling, and re-targeting. Check damage.

2) Arbalist Skillset targeting / retargeting with xbows on the Arbalist job

Hmm, alright Voldemort will do. Thanks for the warnings.

Forgive me if this has been addressed already, but I have found AI to be notorius for shooting into obstacles in Berserk mode (talking about the last skill that you guys were discussing) as an Archer. Meaning, she will completely ignore the obstacles inbetween her and her closest target (very likely missing shots). In addition, the Berserk archer will sometimes try to walk towards her target as closely as possible, making her usefulness diminish very quickly with a ranged weapon in Berserk mode.

I was looking for a new female class to play with to practice using the patching tools, it looks like I'll have to give this job a test run soon (once I am finished with the male Paladin tank/healer job) and see how far I can get with this. FFT needs a good archer class, a very strong mid-long distance fighter. Obviously I have never played 1.3027 so I have no clue how that turned out. I would appreciate it if someone could point me towards reading about that.

edit: hmm.. playing around with FFTPatcher makes me think this class (at least a faithful implementation) simply isn't doable outside of Mercenaries. As long as there is Two Swords, other classes will be able to dual wield Crossbows as well.. which might make this class far less desirable to play with. Then there's other problems when Arbalist is used as a secondary. Their skills that are really meant for ranged weapons, but all of a sudden can become useable with weapons like Spears, etc, making some of their skills possibly slightly overpowering. Duo Wielding Crossbows will also mean they will be able to duo shot anything with a Ranged Weapon flag ticked. This means that if they have access to the Archer skillset, for example, they would be able to duo shot those skills at will. I am curious if LastingDawn might have similar problems with a faithful implementation of this class.

Quotehmm.. playing around with FFTPatcher makes me think this class (at least a faithful implementation) simply isn't doable outside of Mercenaries. As long as there is Two Swords, other classes will be able to dual wield Crossbows as well.. which might make this class far less desirable to play with. Then there's other problems when Arbalist is used as a secondary. Their skills that are really meant for ranged weapons, but all of a sudden can become useable with weapons like Spears, etc, making some of their skills possibly slightly overpowering. Duo Wielding Crossbows will also mean they will be able to duo shot anything with a Ranged Weapon flag ticked. This means that if they have access to the Archer skillset, for example, they would be able to duo shot those skills at will. I am curious if LastingDawn might have similar problems with a faithful implementation of this class

Arbalist is a job meant for Mercenaries, not other patches. It is balanced within Mercenaries.

Their skills ARE useable with weapons like spears, etc but are nowhere near as powerful as on the actual arbalist, and were balanced with that in mind

Your concerns are invalid

@Voldemort,

I realize that very quickly after playing with the skillset in FFTPatcher (as I have stated above, literally). As for Mercenaries itself, just saying that I would imagine it going to be difficult to give the right balance. I suppose things like, for example, Double Shotting all of the Archer's skills (assuming they not using the Charge skillset), would have to be balanced out somehow. What I am interested in is LastingDawn(or, anyone really)'s approach to such problems, which I find difficult to adjust. Anyway, it's not my concern.

Resurrection!

I won't stretch this one. It was hard enough to come up with the ones we have... so anywhere from 5-6 more would be good enough for me! Just recall to keep the theme as appropriate.

Maybe some kind of close quarters move?

Point blank shot - Range 1, Vertical 2, and you use one crossbow to attack at point blank but at greater damage. (if it is possible to do so)

Problem is that the damage would need to be Immense to have it be worth it... which could be done, if we used PA*WP + Y formula. Though I think for that it should cost a lot of MP and be on the same vertical only. Thanks for the idea Gotwald!

ok i have some idea for arbalist (i dont rlly know how to describe so i hope u get the idea )

autocrosbown - like edgar in ff6 well something like this rank 3 straight, 5 panels efect 5 random hits.

headshot - rank 4, no damage, lower % to inflict death.

aim eyes - rank 3, lower damage inflicts darkness.

warning shot - rank 5, reduces target's brave.

shot to the sky - increaces party's brave and or faith.

Interesting skills, but it sort of meshes with the themes that are meant to be present. Aim Eyes is basically Blackout (which is already in the Archer's skillset) Autocrossbow would be interesting... if I could somehow make that custom formula, that will be kept in mind. Headshot might be a bit... much. % Death could be a bit... hmm... well I'll keep that one in mind, because you're basically sacrificing your two attacks for a chance at instant death, for the Brave/Faith ideas... Mercenaries uses something very special for Brave and Faith, that the only way to increase them is through the Faith Rune and "Fury* Rune. Very rare items that increase Fury/Faith by 10 (which means 2 permanent Fury/Faith)

*Fury is a hack made by Zodiac to help balance "Brave" against Faith. In addition, in Mercenaries, reactions will no longer be tied to Brave (Fury), due to another hack by formerdeathcorps.

Skillset update in first post! As I mentioned before, I don't think we can realistically get two more skills without repeating themes already. What do you fellows think of the skillset as it is in the first post?

I like the new skills, but they could have added a darker side to the job. I always thought Arbalists were loners and lurkers like Ninjas. XD
I don't really know which to change, though...

Second Wind -> Second Mistral!